Duke of Majefty had recently honoured him with a conference, was a matter of notoriety. It was not what he wished to deny, nor what he had in his power to conceal. He faid, that it was the privilege of Peers, as the hereditary confellors of the Crown, either individually or collectively, to advise the Crown. He had given his advice; what that advice had been he would not then fay: it was lodged in the breast of his Majefty, nor would he declare the purport of it without the Royal content, or till he faw a proper occafion. But though he would not declare affirmatively what his advice to his Sovereign was, he would tell their Lordships nega tively what it was not. It was unfriendly to the principle and object of the bill. If these were the rumours to which the noble Duke alluded, he gloried in them; it was the caufe of them, and he would ever be ready to meet the noble Duke on this ground, confident that he had acted a dutiful part towards his Sovereign, and one worthy the approbation of their Lordships. He was aware this fort of language was diforderly; he begged the Houfe, however, to recollect, that he had not made it neceffary; if Lord Temple's name had been introduced, it was not the fault of Lord Temple. When the noble Duke mentioned rumours, and did not fpecify to what he alluded, he had been filent; and he should have continued in filence, and have treated every thing of that fort with the fame contempt that he held newspaper paragraps in, had not the noble Duke who spoke laft, made it impoffible for him not to rife, and defy the noble Duke at the head of the Treafury, to make any charge that he would fhrink from. He begged to know therefore what the noble Duke had alluded to? The Duke of Richmond rofe again, and faid, perhaps he Richmond had been diforderly in reading the paragraph from the newfpaper, but the noble Duke who talked of rumours, had done it in a manner fo general and indefinite, that he had thought it highly neceffary to have the matter explained and understood. If the noble Duke meant to take up all unconstitutional interference with the Crown, he would join him, and go as far with him upon that theme as he would go himself; but then the noble Duke muft go back to his old ground, and leave his prefent connections: he must once more act as a whig, and proceed upon whig principles. He hoped, however, when the noble Duke did take up that matter, he would take it up fairly, and not partially. That he he would look at home, and draw forth all unconftitutional interference with the Crown, that of Minifters as well as that of other Lords. He knew, the Duke faid, that it was the duty of the fervants of the Crown to be about the King's perfon, and to confult and advise with his Majefty upon the receipt of foreign, advices, upon the management of his finances, upon the conduct of the army or navy, upon military and civil promotions, and a variety of other executive fubjects, in which his Majefty was neceffarily to be confulted; but he would contend, it was as unconftitutional for a Minifter to advise the Crown, and endeavour to influence his Majefty in regard to any bill depending in Parliament, as it was for any other perfon. The prefent Adminiftration, he afferted, had, from their firft coming in, proceeded to act in defiance to whig principles, and upon the old fyftem pursued by those whom they formerly oppofed. They had manifeftly taken unconftitutional ground, and governed by a corrupt influence. When they first came in, they had asked, the Duke said, if he would join them. Though he liked many in Adminiftration, he forefaw what would follow, and his expectation had not been difappointed. The bill then before the Houfe was a proof of the fort of fyftem which Minifters had laid down. As he could not join them, he had quitted his fituation, and left the Ordnance. What was the confequence? Three gentlemen with no political views, nor in any way connected with influence, whom he had brought into office, were turned out, and three Members of Parliament introduced. Another inftance he would adduce, and that was, the giving Sir William Gordon, a gentleman who had ferved as an Ambaffador abroad, a penfion of 1000l. a year. What could this be for, but to give up his seat in Parliament, that they might bring in a new Member for Portsmouth? a very able Member indeed, Mr. Erfkine. A third inftance was, the appointment of a noble Lord, lately very high in the naval adminiftration of affairs in this country, to the office of Ranger of St. James's Park. Was this office conferred on him for his eminent fervices in the conduct of maritime affairs in this country? Would the noble Duke have the boldness to affert it? Surely not. For what. purpose then were this office and this emolument bestowed? For no other than that he might contribute his influence to the support of a Miniftry grafping at power through every means. These were reports founded in rumour; and if the noble The Earl of Derby Dake of noble Duke was fo unfriendly to rumours of fo unconftitutional a nature, why did he not inveftigate their origin? Why did he not impeach their caufe? Why did he not fubmit them to their Lordships, as in the laft degree dangerous and alarming? The Earl of Derby begged the noble Duke to look at home himself, before he ventured to impute blame to others. When the noble Duke was at the head of the Ordnance, he brought his friends into office, as other men in high fitua tions generally did; and it was notorious, that two, if not more, of those friends, were in Parliament. His Lordship took notice of the rumours abroad for the last three days, reprobated fuch unconftitutional means of endeavouring to fubvert a bill, which could not be overthrown by fair argu ment. The Duke of Richmond rofe again, and, in order to justify Richmond, himfelf, went into a detail of his conduct while in office. He faid he had brought into the Ordnance, Mr. Crawfurd, Mr. Aldridge, and Mr. Smyth, neither of them in Parliament, in the room of Sir Charles Cocks, Mr. Strachey, and Mr. Adam, all of whom were in Parliament; that Mr. Pelham, who had fucceeded Sir Charles Frederick, as furveyor general, was in Parliament, and Mr. Steele, who was his private fecretary. Much as he diffiked influence, the Duke faid, and greatly as he had approved a place bill, it had always been a maxim with him, and which had often been declared by him, that one or two gentlemen belonging to each public office ought to be in the Houfe of Commons. In his own cafe, he had but two of his official connections in that House, viz. Mr. Pelham for the board, and Mr. Steele for himself. He faid farther, that he had on many occafions ftood up for the liberties of the people; he had allo, when occafion required, defended the privileges of that Houfe; and he fhould be equally ready to contend for the conftitutional prerogative of the Crown whenever it was attempted to be invaded, as it was, he contended, moft violently by the bill then under confideration. The Earl of Deiby Ld Viscount The Earl of Derby contended, on the other hand, that if the noble Duke entertained fo favourable fentiments of his friend, the honourable gentleman, why would not he extend his benevolence to others? Were they not entitled to the fame participation of charitable sentiments? Lord Townshend faid he wished to fay a few words, if it were Townshend only for the purpose of calling their Lordships' attention back again to the fubject, that had given rife to the debate, which had taken fo extraordinary a turn. It was, whether the counsel at the bar fhould be indulged till the next morning to prepare themselves farther, or fhould be ordered to proceed in the beft manner they could then? This question had been ftarted an hour fince, fo that out of compaffion to the two learned gentleman, who defired to proceed no farther, the Houfe had gone into a debate, and kept them ftanding at the bar a full hour, as little regarded as a couple of hackney coach horses standing at an alehouse door. The requeft of the two learned gentlemen, his Lordship faid, if complied with, he hoped was not meant as a beginning of more procraftination than that of a fingle day. He had not yet heard any thing against the bill that had induced him to think of it in any other light, than that in which the noble Duke at the head of the Treasury had placed it. But he was certain, if it paffed at all, it was neceffary to pafs with difpatch. The feafon required it. Every body knew that it could not be fent out to India, fo as to take effect there early, unless it went in February; there was an end of any reformation in India, therefore, for another year, should it not be sent out in that month; and it was for this reafon, without meaning to give offence to any individual Lords, that he earnestly hoped no management, no endeavours to occafion delay would be practifed. His Lordfhip repeated what he had faid on Tuesday laft, that he never faw a bill more deliberately, nor more carefully conducted through a committee, than the bill had been conducted through the committee of the Houfe of Commons. Every objection had been liftened to, and every reasonable alteration adopted. He wished, therefore, as little delay as poffible might now attend it. With regard to what a noble Duke, his fucceffor and his predeceffor in office, had faid about influence, he was a little furprised. That noble Duke, upon a coalition having been formed before that, now fo much condemned, and which had proved far more unpleasant to him, had been made Mafter General of the Ordnance. The noble Duke then put his own friends into office. Nobody blamed him for it; but if influence was to be talked of, what had turned his friends Mr. Strachey, Mr. Adam, and others out? Nothing but influence. Every man at the head of an office, naturally liked to have those about him in whom he placed confidence. For this reafon it was, that when he came in again. he brought back his old friends. The Ordnance had been VOL. XIV. called K Earl Temple called an Augean ftable. The noble Duke had fet about Earl Temple ftill declared himself diffatisfied with what the noble Duke had ftated in anfwer to his former interrogations -he feemed to decline being explicit. He begged the conduct of the noble Duke might be marked-he had called for 'impeachment, but it had been refused him. The part he had acted was agreeable to his best sentiments, he enjoyed the recompence of his own mind, and was proud in the recollection of having acted the part of an honeft man. The noble Earl then went into the merits of the bill, and contended against its principle with force and energy. He faid that it was, in his mind, a direct attack on two out of the three branches of the Legiflature; and it contained a doctrine of a tendency fo alarming, that he conceived it as his duty, and the duty of every Peer, to give the most public and unequivocal oppofition to a bill, which, if it paffed into a law, would overthrow the deareft privileges of the country, and the beft principles of the conftitution. It undoubtedly would behove them, in the faithful difcharge of their duty, not only to attend to the requifition of the counfel at the bar, and adjourn the farther confideration of the bill till to-morrow, but if, when they had fuffered the counfel to bring forward every fpecies of evidence of which they were poffeffed, they ftill found themselves deficient in point of information, they muft farther ftop, and look around them, that nothing might remain unexplored and undifcuffed.He meant no unneceffary delay; it was an expedient to which he would never have the meanness to refort; and to prove to the Houfe that it was not his wifh to retard the bufinefs in the fmalleft degree, he would inform them, that he had put off a motion which he meant to have made for the production of papers, which he conceived to be effential to the information of the Houfe, before they fhould proceed to the fecond reading of the bill. He had put it off that the counfel might bring forward their evidence; and as he knew that they must go into a long detail of proofs, and examine a number of witneffes, he was anxious to forward their intentions, in the hopes that the information which they would bring, would be fo full and explicit, as to make the production of the papers which he alluded to unneceffary. 1 |