us. to set up a Government in China, for which we are all to be responsible, or all the Powers together are to be responsible, would lead us into a quagmire, as I may call it, of difficulties, out of which we might never, perhaps, escape. Upon the whole, I do not say for a moment that the policy of the Government has not been a prudent one; but we have so little information of an authentic kind on the subject that I must reserve my opinion until I know more. For the purpose for which we are now assembled we have only these two questions to discuss, namely, the war in South Africa, and China. I have made a few observations to your Lordships on these two subjects, and I shall not detain you further upon others. I think it extremely judicious that other questions-domestic questions are not introduced into the Speech on the present occasion; and that, as I am informed, the precedent of last year is to be followed-namely, that at the close of the present short session-and short, I trust, it will be-there will be a prorogation, and that there will be the usual statement of the policy of the Government at the commencement of the ordinary session of Parliament next year. some slowness and some misunderstand- ( certain, that any attempt to undertake ings, provided there has been, on the whole, common action; and, so far as I can judge, there has been, up to the present time, as much common action as could reasonably be expected in circumstances so difficult. I may also say. for myself, that I saw with satisfaction the agreement concluded by the noble Marquess opposite with the Government of Germany. I think it was a very useful and wise agreement. Of course it is open, perhaps, to some criticism with regard to the fact that the Germans have acquired rights over the province of Shantung; but, taken as a whole, I think the principle is one which the people of this country approve-namely, that there should be an open door to the commerce of all nations, whatever may be the advantages in particular spots where stations are established. I think that is a very useful and desirable agreement to have obtained from the German Government. As to the present state of affairs, I can only say that I am very anxious indeed to hear from the noble Marquess anything he may be able to tell It is extremely difficult to form any just opinion merely from the reports which we get from day to day of expeditions after Boxers, the probability of certain important Chinamen surrendering themselves to be decapitated, and various other interesting subjects. There is only one point upon which I feel, personally, some anxiety, although I do not think Her Majesty's Government are capable of engaging in so very unwise an operation-I mean the notion that we are to embark on an expedition into the interior of China, for the purpose of capturing the Empress and the Emperor, and thereby bringing the whole difficulty to a close. To my mind that would be a most alarming and serious undertaking, and I extremely doubt whether it would be concluded more quickly than the war in South Africa. As to what the cost would be, I leave to those who are judges of such matters to decide. I do not think Her Majesty's Government can contemplate any such expedition; but I hope that what we have seen in the newspapers, only yesterday, that some agreement has been come to between the Powers as to the demands to be made upon China will turn out to be true, and that possibly some way out of the difficulty may be found. Of this I am quite THE PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRIVY SEAL (The Marquess of SALISBURY): My Lords, at all events I have the privilege of entirely agreeing with what was said by the noble Earl opposite at the beginning of his speech and at its end. At the beginning of his speech I heard with great pleasure the welldeserved eulogy which he bestowed upon my noble friend behind me who proposed the Address. I enjoyed the friendship of my noble friend's father, and I think he was, as the noble Earl said, a most popular and acceptable Member of the House. I earnestly trust that the evidence of similar ability which can be traced in the speech of my noble friend will have a full development, and that he will become as well known and be as useful in this House as his father was. My noble friend, with whom I have closer connection, who seconded the Address, I think dealt with a situation of some difficulty with singular judgment. It was my misfortune to have to ask my two noble friends to make speeches upon very scanty matter, and I am bound to say that they produced much more at desirable and admirable results than Ition in the summer is that at that time should have thought it possible to weave members are engaged in their legislative upon so small a canvas. To my noble duties, which are cut short by an appeal friend's observations upon the difficult to the electors. I do not say that October Chinese question I listened with the is the only month for a dissolution, but greatest pleasure, and I entirely concur I think that of all the months it stands in the eulogies which were bestowed. first. There is less interference with The other matter which has been spoken public business and less inconvenience to of by the noble Earl opposite, with those who have to vote. As to the question which I entirely agree, was the of the number of electors on the register, admiration which he eloquently expressed, I must call the noble Earl's attention to latter part of his speech, the experience we already have. If my of the splendid achievements of our information is correct the great change soldiers on their distant battle field, and by which the register is affected takes the skill exhibited by Lord Roberts and place at the end of May. I look back to Lord Kitchener, who have had the guidance the various dissolutions in the Queen's of them. I hope that the admiration reign, and I find I will not go into which is felt for the officers and soldiers details--that quite two-thirds of them by all the people of this country will be, have been subsequent to the month of at all events, some compensation for the May. Therefore this scruple, which I very severe hardships and the constant and have never heard of before and which I wearing efforts to which, in the course of think has been invented for the purpose this unexpectedly long war, they have been of this election, was never felt by our subjected. They have the admiration of predecessors. I am bound to say I doubt their fellow-subjects and of their if the noble Earl, in his anxiety to disSovereign. I do not doubt that in the solve upon a full register, is entirely future the achievements which have been carrying out the intentions which Parliaperformed in this war will stand by some ment had in the legislation which actually of the noblest which have been accom- exists. I presume that the long residence plished in our military history. Un- which is frequently required on the part happily, as the noble Earl has said, there of the elector is part of the policy of have been drawbacks. There has been a Parliament. It is looked upon as an terrible loss of valuable lives. There has advantage that those who vote should been the loss of that promising and able know something of the locality in which soldier, born of the Royal line, to whom they live and in which they vote. The so many were looking forward as likely to result of the dissolution in October is bear a brilliant future; but who, by that those who did vote were, so far an unhappy fate, has been taken as residence could confer a qualification, from his Sovereign and from his country. much more capable citizens for the purHe does not stand alone. There are many pose of voting. I entirely deny that the able and distinguished men, well known absence of working men-if there were in this country, who will appear among any number of working men absent us no more, and their memory will bring from the polls-was likely to incline home to us the feeling that in a war of this more in our direction than in the kind even the most brilliant results are direction of our opponents. As a dashed by the terrible price at which they matter of fact, many who sympathised have been bought. I confess that, when with us were fighting in South Africa, and I heard the noble Earl speak of our great by reason of the dissolution coming before achievements in South Africa and of the the war was over we really denied ourgreat Imperial interests which are involved selves the advantage of their votes. I do there, it came upon me with something not think this is a matter upon which I like a feeling of bathos to hear him ask need dwell further. Still less do I me to defend the date of the dissolution. intend to dwell upon the imputations If I defend the date of the dissolution I which the noble Earl tells us were made shall have to deal with matters which I upon his friends by Members of the am afraid he will think trivial. The House of Commons. We are absolutely objection to the dissolution in the extreme forbidden to take part in the tourney of winter is that people have to travel long eloquence that goes on during the elecdistances and that they suffer considerably tions; and it is really very hard that we in doing so. The objection to a dissolu- should be forbidden to speak ourselves The Marquess of Salisbury. and blamed for what is said by those who THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: I stated in the plainest language that nothing of that kind was in my mind. condition of British self-governing colonies is well known. It does not require to be described in great detail. That is what we wish to offer to these countries when they are fitted to receive it. They cannot receive it now-the feeling is too bitter. It will be some time probably before the state of society in these regions will be such that the benevolent rule of a British self-governing colony can be fully applied to them. I know not how long the delay will have to be. It may be years, it may even be generations; it must depend largely upon their own disposition and their own conduct. If they are resolved to exasperate the feeling of hatred which now exists between the loyal and disloyal parts of the population, if they are resolved to push this guerilla warfare, which can promise them no good, if they are resolved out of sheer hatred to push it to the bitter end they must be responsible for the inevitable result. They must delay the bestowal of those precious privileges which the other selfgoverning white colonies under her Majesty's rule enjoy, and the longer they refuse to recognise the inevitable and to join with the other inhabitants in submission to the authority of the British Crown, the longer the reign of force, more or less, must continue, and the longer the benefits of completely developed freedom must be withheld. The noble Earl asked me for some statement of policy. That has been the statement of our policy all the year. We have no ground for changing it. The war must be carried through. We must not allow it to be felt that anyone, by the issue of an audacious and insolent ultimatum, can force the British Government to humble itself and to abandon the rights which, as representing the Queen, it exercises. We can never allow, and never have allowed, that any shred of independence can be left; but, so long as we are secured in the future of conduct similar to that which is observed by other colonies, nothing will give us deeper satisfaction than to be able to welcome them among the number of the prosperous and contented bodies which for so long have formed the brightest jewel of Her Majesty's crown. We are aware that we have THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: Quite so; and by that the noble Earl took away from himself the suggestion of any possible terms which would be of any use for that purpose. The only thing that these people will be satisfied with is in some way to restore to them that independence. Our policy is absolutely unchanged in that respect. We say that, without provocation on our part, they suddenly plunged us into war, and invaded her Majesty's dominions, and when that had been done we found that they had been preparing for five years gigantic armaments to carry this design into effect. We, at all events, cannot allow that such a process shall ever be repeated. We must place them, at the end of the war, in such a position that they never will be able to expose us either to the danger or to the terrible sacrifices we have had to go through during the past year. Well, then, if we cannot give them their independence, is there anything else that will induce them to throw down their arms except the sheer impossibility of carrying the war further? There is no such offer that I ever heard of demanded from us or proposed by them. Our policy was made clear and declared again and again by no Lord Roberts in the proclamations that he made. It was impossible to put the matter into kinder or more benevolent phrases than he did. The Government to deal with; but that does not seem to me to diminish the responsibility of those who are continuing the war. On the contrary, it ought to point out to them that any chances of any benefit to themselves or others by the course they are pursuing is absolutely exhausted and removed by the fact that they are serving under no Government whatever. The responsibility is with them. All we have to do is what we have done to give our utmost efforts so that the war may come to an end and peace be restored in South Africa. The noble Earl said something about China. He made a denunciation of distant expeditions in which my heart went entirely with him. I earnestly hope that no such expedition will be taken; but, while I express with the utmost fulness that feeling, I do not think I can gratify the curiosity of the noble Lord by telling him the exact position in which the Chinese question stands, or the stage which the various problems we have to solve have reached. For instance, the noble Lord would not wish us to say what we imagine are the exact feelings of the Chinese Government, or what we think our duty with reference to those feelings may be. If we were alone against China I should dispute very much the wisdom of such a course, but when we have four or five allies the noble Earl will feel that his curiosity is not justified. I can only say that the Concert of Europe subsists, and the latest intelligence we have shows that it has assumed a very reasonable vitality. I am more doubtful of the time at which a satisfactory result will be obtained than of the fact that the Concert of Europe will be successful. I have very little doubt it will be successful. All we have to hope for is that we shall attain all the objects we have put forward, and that in doing so the Concert of Europe will remain as much a concert as it is I cannot offer the noble Earl any fuller explanation because not only should I be telling our own secrets, which I ought do, but I should also be telling other people's, which is a more condemnable proceeding. I can only say in answer to the noble Earl's speech-with regard to which, so far as it concerns foreign affairs and does not concern dissolutions, I have no complaint whatever to make that our one duty now is to give all the assistance we can to the gallant men who are supporting the cause of England in the field, and to take care that nothing is uttered within these walls which shall hinder their future and, we hope, their speedy success. When that success has been attained, and we have The Marquess of Salisbury. now. not expressed our feelings of honour and gratitude to those who have attained it, then it will be the business of the noble Earl and his friends to ask for information and inquiry, and it certainly will not be from us that opposition will come. THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: I have no wish to offer any observations on the somewhat Delphic revelations we have heard from the Prime Minister. I am concerned more especially with the topic which he described as alien to our deliberations, but which seems to me to concern this House as being a permanent body in Parliament, and therefore the guardian of our constitutional traditions in no small or light degree. When this House 'separated in the month of August we had no information as to the intention of her Majesty's Government to dissolve Parliament. Of that I naturally make no complaint whatever, but from that day to this we have had no explanation vouchsafed to us of the reasons which induced her Majesty's Government to proceed to that grave act, to dissolve Parliament for the second time in five years, a Parliament, in this case, which had been loyal and unhesitatingly faithful to it, and to call upon the country for a new declaration of its opinion in support of this Government. The noble Marquess says that all the dissolutions in her Majesty's reign have taken place at times inconvenient with regard to the register. I did not follow him closely there, but let me take that as a general declaration of his opinion. He seems to me to miss the whole point of the contention in making that declaration. Dissolutions, as a rule, are matters scarcely of choice for the Government engaging in them. They are the result either of a hostile division or of the shrinking of the majority, or of those signals of ill-omen which are called by-elections, and which induce the Government once more to seek the advice and assistance of the country. In this case there were none of those features. The noble Marquess seems to think October the most ingenious month, which it is, in a sense, for the purposes of a dissolution, because it is an agreeable month for travelling, and because the people who are then engaged in voting have been so long on the register that they have become thoroughly acquainted with their duties as voters. That seems to me a strange reason, when you might by postponing the election for three weeks constitution, by the General Election, is have had a new register in Scotland, and intended by the Constitution to be the by postponing it for three months have repository of the Constitution and the enjoyed the advantages of new registra- guardian of its honour and its interests. tion in England. Surely the object of a Therefore, I know of no rule, written or Government that respects itself and trusts unwritten, which is to debar the House the country is not to go to the electorate of Lords from considering either the without any cause being offered on a worn- methods by which the General Election out register in the month of October. The was carried out or the way in noble Marquess consoles my noble friends which it was fought. As I say, we behind me by saying that if the army in have had no intimation whatever South Africa had been able to return they of the reasons which influenced this would no doubt have registered their General Election, but I say that the votes for the Government. One hears circumstances are wholly different from something of the correspondence of soldiers those which usually occur. The Governin South Africa, and I do not feel so per- ment had no shrinkage of their majority. fectly confident as the noble Marquess of They lost twenty votes out of a majority their unanimity on that subject. They of 150 in the course of five years. If have not been treated with such tender- that is not a rose-leaf diminution of a ness and care, with such regard to their majority I do not know what is. Then we creature comforts, that when they return were told in the usually not uninspired they are likely to cast a unanimous vote organs of public opinion that the dissolufor Her Majesty's Government. But let tion was to take place when the war was that pass. It is an incidental point on over. Well, it is impossible to argue which I can offer no opinion. What I do that the dissolution took place when the offer an opinion upon is that this is a war was over. In the next place we wholly unprecedented election, a wanton were told that the dissolution was to enelection, an election for which no cause courage the Government in the prosecuor reason has ever been given or ever tion of the war, and to put an end to all will, I believe, be given in this House the lurking opposition that there might or the other. We are told that peers be to it in Parliament. Now that again have nothing to do with the election of is an obviously futile reason. Many the House of Commons; that they are faults are found with the conduct of the not allowed to take part in the speechOpposition in the House of Commons, making which unfortunately accompanies but it has never been fairly charged with the election of candidates. Be that so or not, I know it is a constitutional maxim, but I do not think it will stand much examination. When you come to think that peers preside at meetings for the selection of candidates, when you think that they carry the voters in their carriages to the poll, and when you find that they are not unsuspected of finding funds for the election expenses, and when you remember that the only rule which for bids them in any way to interfere rhetorically in an election is a Sessional Order of the House of Commons which expires with the House of Commons that passes it, I am given to be a little doubtful of the soundness of the constitutional maxim so comfortably laid down by the noble Marquess that peers have nothing to do with the election of Members of the House of Commons. Whether that be so or not, I do hold that grave constitutional questions are specially pertinent to this House. This House, not being affected, owing to its fortunate or unfortunate thwarting the Government in the conduct of the war, with hesitation in the granting of supplies, or with any of the acts with which the Opposition in the time of Pitt were, in my opinion, not unfairly charged. The last division of the slightest importance in the House of Commons before the dissolution was one of a somewhat remarkable character. It was a division for the reduction of a Minister's salary, which is, in effect, meant to be a vote of censure on that Minister. In this case it was the Colonial Minister, who was attacked as being the supposed author of the policy of the Government in South Africa. On that occasion the Opposition, the meagre Opposition, was still further divided into three parts. Of these, the larger part voted for the Government. The next larger part walked out with the leader of the Opposition rather than vote against the Government, and the third, some thirty votes in number, voted against the Government. Now, no one will tell me |