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We

A.B.'s in 1870-I believe it to have been | rine, so far without much success. much less, for the scarcity of seamen hope it will not be asked in vain to-day. was never greater than this year. The It is not that we have not the lads; it average annual drain is estimated by the is not that there is no demand. best authorities at 16,000. Now, how have had recently in our midst a gatheris this drain met? About 5,000 boys ing of men distinguished for the inteenter annually as they best can; the rest they take in the welfare of mankind. residue is made up by the introduction From one we heard how the unemployed of foreign seamen and landsmen. The children of the City and State of New latter, from their ages and habits, are York were, after being educated, turned incapable of becoming useful seamen; into useful citizens by being removed while the former, not being British to the Western prairies, where they subjects, are ineligible for Her Majesty's found unlimited employment, congenial Navy, and are consequently valueless as to their tastes. It is true we have no Reserves, though they might, and no Western prairies to which we may send doubt would, be useful in the defence our neglected youth; but we have ocean of their own flags. Various means have prairies just as unlimited and as valubeen taken to arrive at the precise num- able, and yet we see this remarkable ber of foreigners in our service. The state of things, that not one shilling of last official Return puts it down at State money is given to the support or 19,000, I think; but it is notorious that education of the children of the virtuous the great bulk of the foreign element poor in training ships. They are absois to be found in the A.B. class. It is lutely ignored. The responsibility of the not too much to assume that 20 per cent Government has so far been shared only of our A.B.'s are foreigners. A close by the reformatory or the industrial observation leads me to believe that the school ships, excellent institutions in proportion is far greater, notwithstand- their way; but if we are to raise the ing that some official Returns would morale of the Mercantile Marine to that show the contrary. There will always of the Navy, we must recruit from the be great difficulty in getting at the exact same classes. I showed last year that truth, as we find from experience that the cost of educating boys for the Royal England is claimed as the birthplace of Navy was about £60 a-head, as conforeigners in nearly every ship. To trasted with £20, the average cost per test the point fairly, I recently asked head in charitable training ships. I the marine authorities at Liverpool to urged that some scheme should be detake the last 50 sailing vessels and the vised for a common education; that boys last 50 steamers in foreign trade enter- for both services might be educated in ing or leaving that port, to give me the the same ship; that the Admiralty should number of A.B.'s, and how many of select the most suitable, the Mercantile them were foreigners. Here is the re- Marine adopting the remainder; the sult In the 50 sailing vessels 375 expense of the former to be borne by A.B.'s were shipped, 224 of whom were the Naval Estimates, the latter by the British subjects, 151 being foreigners. mercantile fund-a fund created by shipIn the 50 steamers there were 671 ping. I tried to show the scheme of A.B.'s, 541 of whom were British sub- recruiting for the Navy, though admijects and 130 foreigners. Then if we rably adapted to times of peace, was take the crews discharged in the last simple isolation in times of war. I 50 steamers, there were 653 A.B.'s paid asked that the lads might be brought off, 548 of whom were British subjects up together, and thus by early interand 105 foreigners; while in the last 50 course and association in time bring sailing ships there were 409 A.B.'s paid about a more perfect union between both off, 277 of whom were British and 132 services; and I suggested that the youth foreign; or, in all, 1,590 British A.B.'s there trained for the Mercantile Marine and 518 foreign, showing close to 30 should become members of a cadet Reper cent of foreign element in the blue- serve. The House will probably expect jackets of our Mercantile Marine. I that I should explain why the Reserves have shown the result of the mode of have dwindled down from 16,000 to recruiting the Royal Navy. I have 12,000-if I had said squeezed out by over and over again asked that the same impracticable legislation, I should best may be applied to the Mercantile Ma- describe the process which is at work;

and unless we can arrest it, we may rely | they have put in their 28 days' drill. It on it we shall soon hear the question is clear the possibility of men being able asked in this House, if trying to main- to make these voyages every three or tain a force annually falling into decay four months through the Suez Canal or is not a waste of public money. The the Straits of Magellan could not have raising of the standard of height to been realized by the framers of these 5 feet 5 inches-a greater height by half, rules. The men regularly make three if not an inch, than is to be found in the trips in the year, and they should be average of Her Majesty's ships-has been allowed to put in their drill any time in attended with the most mischievous re- the year, just as men are allowed to do sults, and has excluded some of our best who go in sailing ships to ports north men, including 10 years' service men, of the equator, occupying more time. A from the Navy. This, happily, has been Second Class Reserve was created some recently altered; but other as objection- two or three years since by my right able regulations remain. Take the case hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract of men wishing to rejoin after five years' (Mr. Childers). It was limited in the service; they have, perhaps, just re- first instance to 5,000. Seven men joined turned from a 12 months' voyage; they the force the first year, and 17 the next. are asked questions as to drill, which, if Now, why is this? Simply, bad regulathey do not answer correctly, they are tions again. The age is too limitedrefused re-entry; whereas, if these men not less than 18 or more than 20; the were allowed to put in their month's height is too great-5 feet 5 inches. drill they would have instantly passed. They must be able to hand, reef, and Now, it is not easy to see why these men steer, know marks on leadline, and box should be put in a worse position than the compass, and they must speak Engif they were entering for the first time, lish. Now, there are thousands of our when training would have preceded, not seafaring population who can reef a followed, questions as to minute points fore-and-aft sail who could not reef a of drill. Then this sea service is left topsail; there are still more who could undefined, and is regulated by the whim steer with a tiller and yet not know port or caprice of the selecting officer. Some from starboard on a wheel, and there is construe it as meaning foreign sea ser- even a larger class who could navigate vice in large square-rigged vessels, others any gunboat round our coasts, and tell admit coasting seamen, and we have in- to a foot the depth of water in every stances of men being received with five channel in the focalities from whence years' service in ferry-boats and fishing they come, and yet not be able to box craft. This should be altered, discretion the compass, or read off at first sight should be done away with, and in time the marks in a leadline. Then as to no one should be admitted to the Naval speaking English, it is not easy to see Reserves except through the second at first sight the force of a rule which class. Then, very eligible men are re-excludes many Irish, Welsh, and, I fused because they have not been to sea might add, Scotchmen. Then as to enfor two years immediately preceding rolment, there are only seven places their offering to join. Now, it is well where they can be enrolled and drilled, known, the ambition of most seamen is while there are 130 places where the to marry, and get employment on shore, men of the First Reserve can be entered, generally in connection with shipping. and 44 where they can be drilled. They are in most cases the steady, man residing at Aberdeen, wishing to thrifty sailors. We have in all our large join the Second Reserve, must go to ports this class of men living by rig- Leith; a man in London to Harwich; ging, shifting, handling ships of all and a man in Bristol to Weymouth. A sizes and in all weathers, and yet they man to be eligible must have been three are not eligible, though the very men, years at sea, and one year as an ordiit seems to me, we should select for nary. All this should be altered. Able, a Reserve, being thorough seamen and smart young men, who have followed a always on the spot. There is one more seafaring life fitting them for the handillustration I should like to give. Mem-ling of gunboats, likely to become good bers of the Force are prohibited from gunners, are the class we want for such going round the Capes to India or the a Reserve, and if we were only permitted West Coast of South America, unless to have a workable scheme there would

be no more difficulty in getting 17,000 | concentrate our naval power, so we reof these than the 17 who enrolled last quire larger Reserves for manning the year. If to these two Reserves were hundreds of ships which in one shape or added or embraced reserves for boys other will have to be commissioned to trained in our training-ships and the supplement the limited number of our Naval Coast Brigade, which I have re- iron-clads, to follow fleets, and protect ferred to, we should have springing out our immense commerce all over the of the loyalty of the people, and sup- globe. Thus far the Naval Reserves ported at a very moderate cost, Reserves have been Nobody's Child, unless it be that would make this country impreg- one who spent his life in pressing the nable. Had I not been afraid of tres- necessity of them on successive Admipassing on the valuable time of the nistrations-I mean the late Captain House, I would have shown the opinion Brown. His successor, Mr. Mayo, the entertained by our highest naval autho- Registrar General of Seamen, has renrities of the efficiency and quality of the dered, perhaps, equal service in his efmen who compose our Naval Reserve forts to keep up the Force; but however and the necessity of maintaining it. I great individual efforts may be, they will only give one opinion-the opinion cannot succeed in the face of such adof the Prime Minister himself when at verse influences as I have described. Sunderland some years since in address- There should be more encouragement ing the Reserve. Mr. Gladstone, on the given. Deserving members of the Force 9th October, 1862, said— might be appointed as boatmen in Her Majesty's Customs, the Coastguard might be open to them, and the privileges of Greenwich Hospital extended to them. The officers selected for charge of the Reserves should be men specially suited for winning the confidence of the officers and men of the Reserve. What have the officers done for our Volunteers on shore? Do we not owe much of the success of that remarkable movement to the interest taken by the officers, many of them of high rank and great social influence? The Naval Reserve lacks this element to popularize it. Amongst the members of the Royal Family is a naval officer distinguished in his profession, full of zeal for the service, and of deserved popularity. Let His Royal Highness be invited to identify himself with the Naval Reserves, and we shall soon see where the real strength_of England lies. We should obtain Reserves for manning the fleet and for coast defences, which alike would prevent the recurrence of discreditable panics, as they would be equal to any emergency. Reserves not resting on conscription or impressment, but on the loyalty and patriotism of a free people. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving an Address to Her Majesty.

"I hope you will not think I use the words of idle compliment when I state that I have seen nothing in the whole course of my most deeply interesting visit to the North of England with greater interest and satisfaction than your body gathered on this occasion. I do not believe that, among all the measures that have been taken by the Government, or suggested for the purpose of national defence, a wiser suggestion has ever been made or better measures adopted than the incorporation of the Royal Naval Reserve. It is a measure in its spirit essentially pacific, and at the same time it is a measure, as we know perfectly well from the experience of last winter, which has proved to be quite effective." There is just one point which I would wish to think on before I close. It may be argued that our naval power is so much more concentrated now in strength as to require fewer men to man our fleets-an argument the validity of which I agree in; but I would remind the House that the reduction of men has taken place, for when the Commission sat we had over 30,000 blue-jackets afloat, and we have to-day but 18,000. We have discounted this phase of the question. Then, if it is said why not follow the same principle of reduction with our Reserves, the case is entirely different. We have, since the Manning Commission made their moderate recommendations, nearly doubled the value of the national interests at stake; our available personal resources have likewise increased, and our ability to bear the moderate necessary expenditure requisite for perfect defence is increased to a still more remarkable extent; and I entertain the opinion that just as we

MR. T. BRASSEY rose to second the Motion. He considered that the Naval Reserve was a valuable addition to the resources of the country, and the result of inquiries which he had had the opportunity of making in London led him to support the suggestions made by the

hon. Gentleman. He was of opinion | jection was the great expense, and if, that the Reserve constituted a valuable therefore, anything was to be done in link between the Navy and the Mercan- the direction of training seamen for the tile Marine, and if there was any want Naval Reserve it was necessary to adopt of efficiency in the Reserve he would some cheaper plan. It had occurred attribute it in part to the obsolete nature to him, in thinking over the subject of of the greater part of the guns supplied recruiting, that it would be possible to to the drill ships. He also thought that revive the old and very valuable pracsomething might be done by pecuniary tice of taking the apprentices of merinducements to stimulate the interest of chant ships. It was true that compulseamen in their drill. At the present sory apprenticeships had been abolished time a uniform retainer was paid to all with the repeal of the navigation laws; seamen in the Reserves, irrespective of but it would be possible to give the their efficiency, conduct, or attendance owners of sailing ships a bonus for at drill. If it was possible to modify the taking an apprentice, the bonus to be present terms of the retainer with regard paid on suitable conditions—namely, to those who were in future enrolled in that the ships should be proper sailing the force-if the minimum was fixed at ships; that the proportion of apprentices £5, rising by steps to £7, it would be a should be limited-one to every 100 stimulus to attention to drill. The age of tons; that the bonus should be limited to the men in the First Class Naval Re- £5; that the ships be approved of; that serve required consideration. The maxi- the apprentices should be selected by an mum limit for age in the First Class was officer appointed by the Admiralty and fixed at 30 years, which seemed unne- the Board of Trade, and indentured to cessarily low, and he thought it might the Registrar of Seamen for a period of be advantageously advanced to 35. In four years; and that there should be a 1869 there were only 477 seamen above condition that these young seamen, the age of 40 in the Reserve, which having completed their apprenticeship, numbered more than 16,000 men. That should serve for a year in the Navy, and proved conclusively that the Naval Re- afterwards pass into the Naval Reserve. serve would under any circumstances, It might be said that in proposing such and under all possible regulations, be a plan he was merely proposing in a constituted of the younger seamen of circuitous form, that a present should be the Mercantile Marine. They might made to shipowners; but he did not very safely relax many of the regula- think that view should be taken of tions which now applied to the drill and his suggestion. Training on board a enrolment of seamen in the Reserve sea-going ship would be more valuable without losing any important guarantee than training in a stationary ship, and for efficiency. But it was said that the it would be less costly to the State than substitution of steam for sailing ships the education of young seamen in stahad done something to diminish the tionary vessels, in which they could not nursery for seamen. Even in sailing be usefully employed in commerce. ships the proportion of seamen to the Turning from the recruitment of seamen tonnage was considerably diminished of to the question of the officers, he did not late years. In 1854 the number of sea- think that any doubt needed to be entermen employed to 100 tons of shipping tained as to the facility of obtaining offiwas 4.17, and that proportion was re- cers. In ships like the Conway and duced at the present time to 3.75; so Worcester a large number of young men that it was clear that if there was even were being educated-the sons of offithe same tonnage of sailing ships, they cers of both services, clergymen, and merdid not furnish the same nursery for chants-and all they had to do was to fit seamen which formerly existed. He these young men as officers for the Reserve, fully believed that it was possible that and complete what had been well begun. the difficulty of recruiting for the Naval He would suggest that there should Reserve might continue, and he earnestly be on board the Excellent or Cambridge recommended to the Admiralty that a school for education in gunnery for additional means of recruiting for that the special advantage of the officers of force should be considered. It was uni- the Naval Reserve. They had done the versally admitted that the training in same thing for their forces on shore, and the Navy was most excellent. One ob- why should they not do it for their VOL. CCXIII. [THIRD SERIES.]

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Naval Reserves? It might perhaps and of the Board of Trade. The regube thought that officers of merchant lations which had been framed might ships would not be capable of maintain- have been too stringent; but this had ing discipline on board large vessels; resulted not from any want of regard to but when the Great Eastern was em- the Naval Reserve, but from a desire to ployed in laying deep-sea cables she ensure the efficiency of the force. The had on board a crew of a first-class greatest attention had been devoted to frigate, but still there had been no diffi- framing these regulations. The House culty in maintaining discipline there. would not fail to distinguish between the He believed also that the establishment two parts of the speech of the hon. Memof a Naval College would be of great ber for Liverpool (Mr. Graves), one of advantage in reference to matters of this which related to the Royal Navy, and kind. He thought that the suggestion the other to the Mercantile Marine. He that they should educate a staff of in- spoke of a falling-off in the Reserve, and specting officers for the Reserve was in another important part of his speech most valuable, because, in his opinion, he referred to a falling-off in the numthe Reserves had suffered much from ber of men in the Mercantile Marine. this want. The supervision of our Re- Now, these two questions, though havserve Forces had been really committed ing a bearing upon each other, were in to a post captain in the Navy; but if many ways distinct. It might be held to there were inspection by an Admiral of be the duty of the Government to see high position it would undoubtedly ensure that we had an efficient Navy, and that an improved organization, and a more we should secure to ourselves the most ready deference to suggestions for im- valuable portion of the Mercantile Maprovements in connection with the Re- rine Force as a Reserve for the Navy. But serves. The regulations bearing upon it had been said that not only were we that subject were framed 12 years ago, bound to see that we had sufficient and they now required alteration to sailors for our own Fleet, and to see also adapt them to the present circumstances. that we could secure out of the MercanHe hoped that the Motion would com- tile Marine the best materials which it mand the hearty support of the House. contained, but that, further, it was the duty of the Government and the State to assist the increase in the numbers of

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Amendment proposed,

To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words an humble Address be presented to Iler Majesty, praying that She will be graciously pleased to issue a Royal Commission to inquire into the present means of manning the Navy, the keeping up of the requisite supply of men for the Naval Reserves, and to consider whether the services of the seamen of the Mercantile Marine, and the seafaring population generally, might not be made more readily available for the Naval Service of the Country in times of sudden emergency or war,"-(Mr. Graves,) -instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. GOSCHEN entirely agreed with the views that had been expressed as to the importance of Reserves to this country. He also agreed that the subject ought not to be neglected, or bandied about between different Departments; but he was also confident that the question of the Naval Reserve had not been neglected; but had constantly occupied the attention of the Admiralty

the men of the Mercantile Marine. The hon. Member said that year after year he had brought this falling-off in the number of sailors before the House, and that the matter was treated with unconCern. It had, in fact, not been so treated; but the House did not think it was the duty of the State to produce sailors for the Mercantile Marine. No doubt, it was most important that we should have a good supply of sailors, just as, in many other professions, a good supply of skilled men was essential to the in

terest of the country; but although the hon. Member met with some support in putting forward his views on that point-that it was the duty of the State to educate sailors for the Mercantile Marine, he felt confident that opinion would not commend itself to the country at large.

MR. GRAVES wished to explain that what he had said was that so long as the Navy rested upon the Mercantile Marine for its Reserves, so long the community had an interest in keeping up the Mercantile Marine,