present self-created congress, and on the other hand, that no provincial assembly would treat with them; he said there must be other means found to obtain even preliminaries whereon to treat. In answer to a charge made against ministry for sending the transports so late to America, and to Quebec especially, he said, single ships might and did go all the year round to some part or other of America; that they might even get up to Quebec so late as Christmas; that until the river was shut by being frozen up, the northwesters and monsoons, in the latter season, were not against but for them when once in the river; that though there might be bad weather before, yet winter did not usually set in, so as to shut up the river, till Christmas. A gentleman had said that the French exclaimed against our conduct at the breaking out of last war, in seizing their ships without a previous declaration of war, as a breach of the law of nations. He explained this, and shewed that the French were the aggressors, and that they broke the law of nations, by seizing our Indian-traders, carrying them prisoners in irons to Canada, confiscating their goods to a great amount, destroying their habitations and settlements, and taking the King's forts by force. That he had the accounts of these losses made out in an authentic way, had sent them to the minister at the time, and had now duplicates of them by him; that he hoped therefore we should hear no more of this reproach.

for war at all events; yet his Majesty's | inministers had engaged themselves to some plan of pacification. This, he said, he thought was a matter so much to be wished, and which was truly so much wished, that as far as in him lay, he should give his aid and assistance to it. That he wished as anxiously and as ardently, as the gentleman who called upon ministers to produce their plan, to see it come forward; and did hope they would produce it. He hoped that every line that might lead to peace would be tried before the opening of the next campaign; but yet thought, that by a respectable and even formidable armament, we ought to be prepared for that campaign, if necessity obliged us to open it. But setting his foot firm on this ground of peace, he thought that those whom his Majesty entrusted with his powers of government could alone make it; that therefore, under the same idea by which he objected to the present motion, he should object to the bringing forward any other propositions, by any person whatsoever which was meant to anticipate, or to frustrate those measures of peace, which he hoped he should see put by his Majesty into the hands of his ministers. That until we saw how far these were practicable and honourable, or otherwise, he should be against any other person's taking the business out of their hands; that as we heard last year the conciliatory proposition explained into an auction, at which the Americans were to bid up for their rights, so now he found we were to have, (by a competition of Mr. Burke raised the laugh of the House propositions to be brought forward by at Mr. Pownall's expence, by ridiculing some gentlemen) a Dutch auction; at his declaration of what he could do, and which parties were to bid downwards for what he knew; and by humourously saythe good will and favour of the Ame-ing the governor had tolled the bell, and ricans; those to be best entitled to it who could offer the lowest terms: he thought this, he said, so unfitting, that he would put the previous question upon any such propositions, even upon those which an hon. gentleman (Mr. Burke) had given notice he would propose and move.

He then went to the explaining some matters of fact which had been asserted. First, in answer to an idea of his being intended to be one of the commissioners mentioned in the Speech; he totally disavowed any communication about it, or the least knowledge of it. He said, if it were offered, he should wish to know, first, whether the powers to be granted were such as could be of any use; he said these commissioners could not treat with the

given notice, that on Friday he would perform the funeral service over his intended, and, as yet, unknown, proposal for a reconciliation. As he was to be killed by a previous question, he begged to tell the House a story: he then related a legend of a prince whose parents superstitiously imagined he was to lose his life by a lion, and therefore prevented him from going out, for fear of his meeting a lion; but that one day he was in a room where that animal was imitated in the tapestry, which in rage he struck at, and there being a nail in the wall under that part of the tapestry where the lion's jaw appeared, it tore his hand, and killed him. Now, (said Mr. Burke) I find that I am to be killed by the foot of a more ignoble

day being read for taking into consideration a Paper, intituled, "Copy of the Petition of the Congress to the King," delivered to the Earl of Dartmouth, by Messrs. Penn and Lee, on the 1st September 1775, the said Paper was read by the Clerk as follows:

"To the King's most excellent Majesty'

"Most gracious Sovereign;

beast that universal murderer, a previous | ciliation."] November 7. The order of the question; I fear the liberties of this country will die by a previous question. He observed, that ministers had already given up the idea of taxation, and seemed rather doubtful of recovering America on any terms; but in such a state of political despair, the hon. gentleman told them, that not only peace and America might be recovered and restored, but that a revenue might be yet obtained. He admitted that the hon. gentleman had knowledge: but now, he said, (looking at Mr. Jenkinson) let me turn from knowledge to authority, which has always more weight in this House. I shall now speak to the real minister. From his speech it is obvious what is intended. An army is to "do the business;" since that is the case he should rest satisfied without further enquiry: but just to beg leave to know if there was one gentleman of the military profession in the House, (and, blind as he was, he could discern several red coats) who would rise and tell the House, that from his conscience he was satisfied the estimate on the table, and the arrangements in consequence of it, would answer the ends proposed.

Sir John Wrottesley mentioned his having been in company with some respectable and sensible American gentlemen, who talked of the present dispute, and informed him that there were three ways of terminating it with honour. The one, by treaty; the second by repealing all the Acts previous to 1763; and the third, by conquest. Sir John added, that these Americans had informed him the New York Petition, (which, like most of the others, was unfortunately clogged with a clause, denying the legislative authority of Great Britain over her colonies) was fabricated here and sent to New York, where, in compliment to the fabricator, it was signed and sent back to be presented. Sir John wished an end to the quarrel, but not at the expence of the honour or the rights of this country.

Mr. Burke urged sir John to have the person to the bar of the House who gave him the information, offering, on his part, to bring three evidences to disprove the fact.

The Committee divided on the first Resolution, Ayes, 227; Noes, 73.

Debate in the Lords on a Motion, "That the Petition of the Congress of America to the King affords Ground of Con

"We, your Majesty's faithful subjects of the colonies of New Hampshire, Massachuset's Bay, Rhode Island, and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, the counties of New-Castle, Kent and Sussex in Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North and South Carolina, in behalf of ourselves and the inhabitants of these colonies, who have deputed us to represent them in General Congress, entreat your Majesty's gracious attention to this our humble petition.

"The union between our mother country and these colonies, and the energy of mild and just government, produced benefits so remarkably important, and afforded such assurance of their perma nency and increase, that the wonder and envy of other nations were excited, while they beheld Great Britain rising to a power the most extraordinary the world had ever known. Her rivals observing that there was no probability of this happy connection being broken by civil dissen-: tions, and apprehending its future effects, if left any longer undisturbed, resolved to prevent her receiving so continual and formidable an accession of wealth and strength, by checking the growth of these settlements, from which they were to be derived.

"In the prosecution of this attempt, events so unfavourable to the design took place, that every friend to the interest of Great Britain and these colonies, entertained pleasing and reasonable expectations of seeing an additional force and extension immediately given to the operations of the union hitherto experienced, by, an enlargement of the dominions of the crown, and the removal of ancient and warlike enemies to a greater distance.

"At the conclusion, therefore, of the late war, the most glorious and advantageous that ever had been carried on by British arms, your loyal colonies, having contributed to its success by such repeated and strenuous exertions as frequently procured them the distinguished approbation

a faithful one, by the assurances given by the noble lord who had the original in his possession.

son was better qualified nor none would give it with greater candour and impartiality.

The Earl of Dartmouth said, that such a precedent was now proposed to be established as would, in all probability, if carried, be destructive of all order. The very grounds on which it was stated, that of authenticating the Petition, shewed there was no necessity for complying with the motion; for he acknowledged the receipt of such a petition from Mr. Penn, and believed himself, and made no doubt but all their lordships were perfectly of the same opinion, that the paper was genuine. Lord Camden expressed his surprise that any lord should oppose the present motion, for without debating the point of order, which he was convinced fully authorized the propriety of the motion, he should be glad to know what objections the noble lords in administration had to it. The Duke of Richmond, in reply to what had fallen from lord Dartmouth, observed, that however well satisfied the noble earl and his friends might be that the Petition was genuine, yet he thought the formality of authenticating it became highly necessary, when it was known that Mr. Penn did not receive the Petition immediately from the hands of the delegates, it having been sent after him to England, in order to be presented in the manner before described. He urged further, that the Petition being signed by the persons assembled in congress, in his opinion it would be very proper, that Mr. Penn, who was acquainted with the hand-writing of those persons, should be called to prove it.

The Earl of Dartmouth replied, that if that was the main purpose for which Mr. Penn was to be called, his examination would answer no end; the paper lying on the table being nothing more than a copy of an original in his office.

The Duke of Richmond insisted still, that Mr. Penn's examination would be equally proper, whether the original paper was immediately before the House, or in his lordship's office; for when that gentleman came to be examined at the bar, all that would be desired from him was, to know if the paper delivered by him to the noble lord at the head of the American department, was really signed by the persons whose names were thereunto annexed; that fact once ascertained, the proof would be complete, as their lordships would be then satisfied, that the copy now read was

Lord Lyttelton spoke chiefly to the numerous inconveniencies that must arise, if the present motion should be carried, and established into a precedent on future occasions. He said, if their lordships, when summoned to deliberate and debate on any important question, should be surprised by extraneous matter, and witnesses called to the bar to be examined, on points which might introduce other subjects into discussion, it would at once destroy that order and gravity, for which their usual course of proceeding was known so eminently to excel; in short, it would create that kind of confusion and uncertainty, which, wherever it prevails, is so derogatory to the wisdom and dispatch of business, in a deliberative assembly. As for the other part of the precedent, that of calling for viva voce proof, to authenticate petitions presented to their lordships, it was a matter he would never assent to; because, in his opinion, such a condition would be intolerable, and in many cases impracticable; for it would amount to this, that every petition, from any part of the empire, which should in future be presented to that House, must be authenticated by evidence at their lordships' bar, in some instances to authenticate its contents, and in others to prove the hand-writing of the persons who may be supposed to sign it. His lordship was however of opinion, that although it would not be proper to examine Mr. Penn, in the manner now moved for, it was competent for any lord, upon due notice, to call for any person or persons who he might imagine would impart such lights as promised to lead to an elucidation of the subject on which he meant to frame his motion.

The Duke of Richmond observed, that the noble lords who declared themselves adverse to the motion, on the ground that it was contrary to the usual mode of proceeding, and would establish a precedent which might in future be an impediment to applications to them, in their legislative, deliberative, or judicial capacities, in the way of petition, he hoped would be satisfied, when he assured them, that no question was intended to be put to Mr. Penn, on which he did not desire it to be previously understood, that any noble lord might be at liberty to rise and object to it. He said, that matters which had fallen