23. That fuppofing the war to continue during the year 1800, the expence to be the fame as in the prefent year, 10,000,000l. to be raised within the year by the Tax on Income, and 1,500,000l. by Imports and Exports, in addition to the usual fums in lieu of the Land and Malt, to the Lottery, and to 3,400,000l. which may be calculated to be the produce of the Confolidated Fund (including imprefts and repayments expected in 1800), a Loan will be requifite to the amount of about 15,000,000l. which (taking the 3 per cents. at 60) will produce a capital of about 25,500,000l. of which (according to the plan purfued in the present year) about 17,000,000l. would be on the credit of the Tax on Income-making together, with the fimilar capital created in 1798 and 1799, in the whole, capital stock to the amount of 52,000,000l. to be redeemed after the peace by the Tax on Income.

That fuppofing the war to end at the conclufion of the year 1800, and the price of the 3 per cent. ftock to be, during the first five years of peace, on an average Sol. and the produce of the Tax on Income to be 10,000,000l. this capital would be discharged in about four years and an balf from the 5th of April 1801, or nearly at Midfummer 1805; but fuppofing the Tax on Income to produce only 7,500,000l. the fame capital will not be redeemed till near Michaelmas 1807.

And that, during those periods refpectively, the annual expenditure, exclufive of any charges which may arise from winding up the expences of the war, or from any increase in the Naval and Military Establishments beyond those of the last peace, but including the extraordinary fums to be applied as above stated to the redemption of Debt, would be about 34,600,000l. on the fuppofition of the Tax on Income producing 10,000,000l.; and 32,100,000l. on the fuppofition of its producing 7,500,000l.

24. That the fums neceffary to be raised by Loans for the service of the years 1798, 1799, and 1800, (fuppofing the fyftem for raising fuch a proportion of the fupplies, as is before ftated, within the year, had not been adopted) muft have been eftimated as follows:

For 1798, about. 21,500,000

Which, fuppofing the price of ftocks to have been at 45, would have created a capital of 160,000,000l. 3 per cent. stock, and a permanent charge (including 1 per cent. for the reduction of the

capital) of 6,200,000l. annually; which, fuppofing the capital to be redeemed by about forty years, would amount in the whole to 248,000,000l. fterling, to be ultimately paid by the Public.

25. That for every year of the war which might hereafter take place, fuppofing the expence thereof to amount to 25,000,000l. to be defrayed by Loans, and the price of the 3 per cent. 'ftock to be at 50l. a permanent charge would be incurred for the interest, and I per cent. on the capital, amounting to 2,000,000l. to remain for a period, which may be estimated to be about forty years; and that the charge which would so be incurred for any five years of war (on the fame fuppofition) would require permanent taxes to the amount of 10,000,000l. ; being equal to the amount of the eftimated produce of the temporary tax which, according to the plan now purfued, is impofed upon Income.

26. That the total permanent charge for defraying the expences of the years 1798, 1799, and 1800, according to the plan now adopted, may be computed as follows:

In 1798, Intereft and Charges of 7,000,000l. beyond what was borrowed on Credit of the Aid and Contribution

In 1799, on 4,500,000l. beyond what was borrowed on Credit of Tax on Income

577,000

In 1800, on 5,000,000l. eftimated to be borrowed in like manner, at 6ol.

Making together

Which, fuppofing the principal to be redeemed as before in forty years, would amount to

And adding thereto, for the year 1798, raised within the year by Aid and Voluntary Contributions and duty on Exports and Imports

For 1799, by tax on Income, and duty on Imports and Exports

48,240,000

7,000,000

9,000,000

And for 1800, estimated to be raised in like manner, 11,500,000 And also the produce of the tax on Income, eftimated as before, during four years and half of peace, for the redemption of 52,000,000l. capital

Would make the whole fum ultimately paid on

45,000,000

Being less than the charge estimated to be created, by defraying the like expences by Loans as before ftated, by the fum of above 128,000,000l. fterling.

27. That fuppofing the price of 3 per cent. ftock to be, on an average after the year 1800, 9ol. in time of peace, and 751. in time of war, and the proportion of peace and war to be nearly the fame as in the course of the last one hundred years, the average price of peace and war would be about 851. The fund applicable to the reduction of debt exifting previous to 1793, will have reached its greatest amount in 1808-The whole of the capital of debt created in each year of the prefent war, will be redeemed in about forty years from fuch year refpectively; and the whole of the capital debt exifting previous to 1793, will be redeemed in about fortyfeven years from the prefent time.

28. That from the year 1808 to 1833 (at which time the capital debt created in the first year of the prefent war would be redeemed, and the taxes applicable to the charges thereof would become difpofeable) taxes would be fet free in the course of each year of peace (on the fuppofition of the price of stocks before stated) to the amount of 133,000l. and in each year of war to the amount of 168,000l. making (on the proportion of peace and war above ftated) the total amount of taxes fet free during that period 4,284,000l. That the amount of the fum annually applicable to the reduction of debt, would, in the courfe of the fame period, gradually rife from 5,000,000l. to about 10,400,000l. and may at a medium be computed at 7,700,000l. That the permanent Loan to be borrowed in each year of war during the fame period, would, according to the system now adopted, amount to the fame fum. That the interest and I per cent. on the capital of fuch Loan may, for every fuch year of war, be computed at about 410,000l. and the total charge thereof would, on the fuppofition above stated, amount to 5,300,000l. exceeding the amount of the taxes which would be fet free in the fame period by about 1,000,000l.

29. That fuppofing the charges occafioned by each year of war during the period before stated, and the fums raised within the year to remain as computed for the year 1800, the total amount of that part of the Loan neceffary for the fervice of every fuch year (which, according to the plan now adopted, will be to be raised on the credit of the tax on Income) will be gradually decreafing during the whole of the period, in proportion as the fums applicable in each year to the reduction of debt increase; and that the period for which the tax on Income muft afterwards continue in time of peace on account of each year of war, will decrease in like manner.

30. That (on the suppositions before stated) taxes equal to the amount of the charge created during each year of the present war will be fucceffively fet free, from the year 1833 to 1840 inclufive,

I

to the amount in the whole of about 8,500,000l. That taxes to the amount of nearly 2,000,000l. will alfo be fer free from the year 1833 to 1846 inclufive; and farther taxes to the amount of 4,200,000l. (being the fum applicable from 1808 to the reduction of debt exifting previous to 1793) will be fet free about 1846, when the whole of the faid debt is eftimated to be redeemed; making in the whole, together with the taxes before ftated to be fet free from 1808 to 1833, near 19,000,000l. of taxes fet free up to 1846.

31. That supposing the fame number of years of war to 1846, at the fame rate of expence, the fums neceffary to be raised by Loans for defraying the fame (if the fyftem for raising a portion of the supplies within the year, as stated, fhould not be adopted) would amount in each year of the war to about 25,000,000l. the whole to about 450,000,000l. fterling; which, fuppofing the price of 3 per cent. to be 5ol. on an average of war, would amount to 900,000,000l. capital stock, and the intereft and charges of 1 per cent. to 36,000,000l. per annum ; which, after deducting about 19,000,000l. taxes, eftimated to be fet free within the fame period, would require an increase of 17,000,000l. of permanent taxes beyond thofe now exifting.

Mr. TIERNEY faid he had no objection to the delay propofed his principle reafon was, that as he had been favoured with a copy of the refolutions to be moved by the right honourable gentleman, he found there was very little difference between them. The right honourable gentleman's alterations might be confidered rather as additions than amendments. They had taken different points of view, but he did not think their differences of statement were confiderable. This being the cafe, he wished for another day being fixed. He was defirous rather that the right honourable gentleman would agree to let both fets of refolutions be entered upon the Journals. He (Mr. Tierney) admitted that the right honourable gentleman's figures were accurate, and he did not find that his were confidered wrong. Every man muft form his own opinion, and nothing could better enable them to do so than being able fairly to compare the two refolutions. The right honourable gentleman affumed different data, and drew different conclufions, particularly in the mode of viewing the amount of the National Debt, as in 1793 and 1799, and the amount of the Income Tax; variations that neceffarily gave a variation in the refults. Still, however, he found all his own figures among thofe of the right honourable gent'eman; furrounded, indeed, in fuch a manner, that he found it

difficult to recognise his own children. For thefe reasons he was rather averse to have any fresh difcuffion on the subject.

Mr. Chancellor PITT faid, that there were many parts of the honourable gentleman's refolutions which he objected to, not merely as inaccurate, but as prefenting falfe conclufions refpecting our financial fituation. He confidered the ftatement of the honourable gentleman, though it might be arithmetically correct, as leading to difcouraging inferences; while, on the contrary, he was convinced that a full view of all the circumftances would afford the most fatisfactory and encouraging view of our fituation. The fair refult, in

his mind, was, that though the public burdens were greater than at any former period, there never was a period that prefented more unequivocal appearances of ftrength and opulence, or a more pleas ing affurance of ample refources. He thought it of great importance to imprefs that statement, which he believed to be well founded, upon the public and fince the matter had been agitated he wished it to be examined to the bottom. When the fubject was difcuffed, he should, therefore, take the liberty of stating, more at large, his reasons for the House rejecting the conclufions which the honourable gentleman wished to draw, and adopting those which, he was convinced, a full and ample confideration of the cafe would authorize. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then pointed out the ftatement refpecting the amount of the National Debt in 1793 and 1799, as leading to a wrong inference ;-nor was this the only inftance of the fame kind in the honourable gentleman's refolutions. For thefe reafons he perfevered in withing that a day might be fixed for the difcuffion..

Mr. TIERNEY denied that he defpaired of the state of the country; for nobody was lefs difpofed to defpond than himself., He only was defirous that both statements fhould be recorded; and that the right honourable gentleman and himself, as it were in the capacity of counsel, fhould put in their different statements. The public would then be able diftinctly to confider the fubject, and draw their conclufions. He was averfe to any debate upon the fubject. Conscious of the fuperiority of the right honourable gentleman to himself, he was fure of being beat there, though he was not afraid to enter the lifts with him when the conteft confifted in refolution for refolution. He wished, therefore, that the right honourable gentleman would agree to let both fets of refolutions go upon the Journals without farther debate.

Mr. Chancellor PITT faid, he was always forry to object to any candid propofition, but he could fcarcely think that this was the cafe at present. The honourable gentleman confeffed he VOL. IX.

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