could be done with the leaft femblance of truth, of their great numbers of wealthy adherents; and he then asked, what was the language of that addrefs? It was to this effect: "We have no leader, avarice and cowardice have feized upon the minds of the rich, none of the opulent can be found to act in our behalf :" But if it were fuppofed that the Traitorous Societies, faid to abound in this country, had been joined by many perfons of rank or property, then the rigorous penalties, now under confideration, had been proved to be ineffectual: and strange it was, in pleading for the continuance of laws, to appeal to their inefficacy. It would be more conformable to good sense to apply for the repeal of fuch useless laws, and to contend, either for the introduction of others of a fevere complexion, better adapted to exifting circumstances, or for the adoption of milder measures and a more lenient fyftem. The latter was the conclufion which he (Mr. Hobhoufe) inferred from the Report of the Secret Committee. How different then were the impreffions which that Report had made upon his mind, from those which it had excited in the breast of the honourable gentleman (Mr. Abbot) to whom the perufal of it had fuggested the propriety of bringing forward this measure! Had not the Secret Committee allowed that, notwithftanding the attempt to fupprefs feditious lectures by the new Treafon and Sedition Acts in 1796, debating focieties had only affumed another shape, and directed their views to the fame pernicious objects? Had not the Secret Committeee ftated that, after the paffing of thofe bills, the London Correfponding Societies difpatched a miffionary, Mr. John Gale Jones, to the affiliated focieties in the country, to inftruct them that their meetings might be continued with fafety? They were only to take care that their fections should not amount to more than forty-nine. The fame would have been done had the law reftricted the number to twenty or ten, each meeting would be compofed of one lefs than the ftatute prohibited. How impolitic, how dangerous was it, Mr. Hobhoufe exclaimed, to prevent the people from openly difcuffing measures of a public nature! If mifchievous confequences followed, a Government was prepared for and might defeat them; but when men are not permitted publicly to affemble, and inquire into their real, or only fancied grievances, they were driven to the adoption of fecret meetings, whofe defigns, if bad, are not fo eafily detected, and of course not so easily counteracted. Had not the Secret Committee declared, that means were found to refift and evade those bills, and that the confpirators had filently and fecretly pursued their attempt to poifon the minds of the lower orders with unabating perfeverance, and by fending incendaries into the fleet for the wicked purpofe of tainting the na

tional ftrength, and converting the natural defence of the country into an inftrument of its ruin, had brought thefe kingdoms into a ftate of more imminent danger than they had ever before experienced? Mr. Hobhoufe then defired to know, whether he had not the authority of the late Secret Committee in fupport of his pofition, that a system of severity and terror was not calculated to fupprefs traitorous and feditious practices? Nay, the hiftory of every age, and the experience of every nation teftified the fame truth. In what country were treafon and rebellion fo feverely punished as in Afia, where offenders of that description were not only made to fuffer a cruel death, but the whole family involved in the same destruction; and yet in what country were fuch crimes fo frequent? not the Republic of Rome become more flourishing? Did it not, indeed, rise to the greatest height of profperity after the enactment of the Porcian Law, which virtually repealed the exifting mass of fanguinary punishments, by exempting every Roman citizen from fentence of death ? When the cruel fyftem was again reforted to under the Emperors, did not treafon and revolt become very prevalent? Did not the Empire groan under every fpecies of calamity, and finally fink into decay and ruin? Did not our own history afford a striking example of the fame kind? Was it not crowded with accounts of civil wars, plots and confpiracies? What terrify

Did

ing effect then had been produced by the horrid train of death, Saxon forfeiture, and feudal corruption of blood? This argument, from experience, was a complete anfwer to thofe gentlemen, who thought that men, who had no regard for life, were reftrained from embarking in rebellious enterprizes by a tenderness for their offspring, and that treasons were thus rendered lefs frequent. It had been faid by an honourable gentleman (Mr. H. Browne) that those who entered into confpiracies against the state, were mere men of strong paffions, of ardent and enthufiaftic minds, and muft, therefore, be oppofed by ftrong punishments: but he (Mr. Hobhouse) was inclined to draw a different conclufion from the fame fact, which he allowed to be true. Men of fuch inflammable difpofitions were not likely to be affected by a remote confideration of the poffible diftrefs they might bring upon their families: the probability of fuccefs would alone determine them, in contempt not only of death, but the cruel confequences of attainder. Mr. Hobhouse then concluded with the following appeal to the Chair: "Would you, Sir, prevent the spread of Treafon and Sedition it is to be accomplished not by coercive laws, not by rigorous punishments; but by the correction of abuses, by the redrefs of grievances, by the mildnefs of your Government. Thus you take away from the ambitious and the desperate every

engine calculated to work upon the minds of the lower orders.. There is no truth of which I am more ftrongly convinced than this-that no infurrection, on the part of a people, for the purpofe of effecting a change in the form of Government, can ever rise to a formidable height, if their freedom be not violated, if oppresfion be not fuffered to exift.

"From every view I am led to take of this fubject, I must oppofe, Sir, your leaving the Chair. I wish I could flatter myself that the Houfe was likely to concur in the fentiments I have expreffed; for I fhould then indulge the pleafing prospect that, upon the decease of the Cardinal of York, men would be no longer liable to be tried, after their bones had been depofited in the fepulchre of their ancestors, that the facred filence of the grave would be no longer profanely disturbed, and that innocent orphans and their posterity would be no longer devoted to infamy and ruin."

Mr. JONES faid it had been obferved, that the Jacobins in this country amounted to 80,000. He did not believe there were near that number; but he was very fure the prefent measure would tend to create them. It was hard to vifit the fins of the father upon the children. He approved of the principles upon which his honourable friend oppofed the Speaker's leaving the chair, and said he fhould certainly vote with him.

The Houfe divided on the

chair-Ayes, 57; Noes, 8.

question for the Speaker's leaving the Majority, 49.

The Houfe then refolved into the Committee.

The Report was afterwards received, and agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on the following day.

Lord HAWKESBURY moved the order of the day for the Houfe to take into confideration the Report of the bill for the improvement of the port of London. He faid he had had fome converfation on the fubject with gentlemen who were interested in this business, and he had found that there were fome verbal inaccuracies which it would be neceffary to correct, therefore, the alterations would only be verbal. He should then move, that the bill be recommitted, and would fix on Friday next for the third reading.

Mr. Alderman COMBE expreffed a wifh that fome compenfation thould be made to the tackle-porters for the lofs they must fuftain in confequence of this bill.

Lord HAWKESBURY faid that all perfons who should suffer by this bill, might lay their claims before the Commiffioners appointed by the bill, from whom they should receive compensation : and that tackle-porters fhould be mentioned in the bill among

others entitled to demand compenfation. The report was then order to be received on the next day.

Lift of the Minority against the Treafon Forfeiture Bill.

Mr. SOLICITOR GENERAL moved the order of the day, on the Bill for preventing Combination among Workmen.

Mr. HOBHOUSE oppofed the Speaker's leaving the chair. He should not go over the ground which he had trodden on a former night, when he fupported his honourable friend's (Sir F. Burdett) motion for poftponing the Millwrights' Combination Bill for three months. He had then shewn the evil confequences of legiflative interference in regulating the price of provifions, or the price of wages, which might be confidered as the property of the industrious. He had at that time, also, observed, that combinations among workmen were more easily broken than combinations among masters, because it could not be long before their finances were exhausted, and then they must apply for employ. It was needlefs, therefore, for him to enlarge upon that topic, which was no doubt a folid objection against the principle of this bill. He should advance another argument of a different kind, which appeared to him worthy of the confideration of the House.

If it were agreeable to found policy to legiflate upon subjects of this nature, a better remedy against such combinations among workmen might be fuggefted, than a measure which virtually fuperfeded the trial by Jury. The common law punishment (fine and imprifonment) would be fully adequate to the offence, if a learned gentleman in office, whom he did not then fee in his place, (the Attorney General,) had carried into effect the intention he had announced of bringing in a bill to render trials for misdemeanours more speedy. Workmen, charged with confpiring to raise their wages might now put off their trials for fix months, or longer; if the learned gentleman had adopted his propofed means of defeating fuch delay, nothing more would now be wanting. Since, therefore, refort might be had to fo obvious and fo good a remedy, he (Mr. Hobhouse) could VOL. IX.

K

not confent to a bill which rendered the trial by Jury useless, (a trial gradually lofing ground in the country), and gave the power entirely into the hands of the Magiftrates. If he failed in preventing this bill from going into a Committee, as no doubt would be the cafe, he should propofe an amendment in one of the claufes. The Houfe then went into a Committee.

Mr. HOBHOUSE then rose and faid, that he trusted nothing which fhould fall from him would be conftrued into any disrespect against Juftices of the Peace, of whom, as a body, he entertained a very high opinion. As the trial by Jury was in effect taken away, and authority given to the Magiftracy to commit to the House of Correction any perfon convicted before them, even "of an indirect endeavour to prevent a journeyman hiring himfelf," &c. &c. he thought that more than one Magiftrate thould be required upon fuch trials. There was fcarcely a fingle manufacture in the country in which the mafters were not guilty of combinations; yet an attempt to make them liable to a commitment to the Houfe of Correction, on conviction before one Juftice of the Peace, would be deemed monftrous. If men were liable to be tried for an expreffion, or a fuppofed infinuation, and were to lofe the advantage of being brought before twelve of their countrymen, it was furely too much to transfer the jurifdiction into the hands of one Magistrate. He thould, therefore, move, that inftead of the words "before one or more Magistrates," be inferted "two or more Magistrates.”

This motion, after fome oppofition from Mr. Buxton, Mr. Ellifon, and Mr. Solicitor General, and a reply from Mr. Hobhouse, was rejected without a divifion.

The Committee then went through the feveral claufes, and filled up the blanks; and the Report was ordered to be received on the following day.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, June 28.

The Lord Chancellor brought in a bill to enable His Majefty to appoint any perfon His Majefty may think fit to be a Baron of the Exchequer without being first appointed Serjeant at Law, as is the customary proceeding, previous to the railing perfons from the Bar to the Bench. The Chancellor obferved, that it being now theperiod of the recefs of the Courts of Law, Mr. Chambré could not be advanced to the degree of Serjeant without an act of the Legif