Ireneus, an early Father, Lib. III. Chap. 3. "the apostolic tradition is present in every church. We can enumerate those who were constituted bishops in the church and their successors even unto us. And this is the language not only of Ireneus, but also, of all the writers down to the reformation-a period from which it is not difficult to trace our origin as Christians.

Now Sir, wherever the succession of this authority has been continued in the priesthood; and under it, men celebrate the worship and the sacraments of the Gospel by faith, there we find the visible Church of Christ. The visible Church of Christ then is "a congregation of faithful men, in the which the word of God is preached, and the sacraments be duly administered according to Christ's ordinance, in all those things that of necessity, are requisite to the same."* This Sir, being the case-Christ's Church being a visible institution, as has been fully proved; he having ordained a priesthood, and given his delegated power to that priesthood, to govern and perpetuate his Church to the end of the world, wherever we find the succession of that power dispensing the word and

Art. 19. P. E. Church.

sacraments to faithful men, we find the Church of Christ, and no where else. I know Sir, in later times men teach a different doctrine-I know men come forward disputing every visible authority; in the warmth of their zeal, claiming to be empowered of God to pull down others and build up themselves;-but I must be plain on this subject. Sir, I must beg leave to question their authority, until they show me their commission and trace their descent from Christ. I am sensible that new things in religion are captivating and popular; that in these days many new inventions are sought out-that the mysteries of an inward call, accompanied with high denunciations, and flaming professions, are calculated, as a torrent, to lay waste the vineyard, of our Lord. But they can never prevail but to a certain extent. For he who has pledged himself to support his kingdom-he who says to the ocean, hitherto shalt thou come but no further, he who said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, will protect his Church to the stupendous day of his second advent.

The saying of men Sir, shakes not my faith. I know that men ordained by man's authority, speak with boastful contempt of what we have this day, heard proved to be the authority of Christ. I

know they have answered those who have remonstrated with them, telling them, "thus saith antiquity, and thus did the apostles say and do," we regard not the apostles-we are taught of God; we have a commission from Heaven. But to me, Sir, these things are suspicious. They should not move us; on the other hand we should be contented to stop, to "look out the good old way, and walk therein," for in so doing we are assured we shall find rest to our souls.

Layman Secundus. Sir, if the Rev. gentleman be done speaking, I have a remark to make. Notwithstanding all that has been said about this visible church and authority, I am impressed with a belief, that an apostolic ordination is not indispensable to a valid ministry; I believe if the man possess the inward call, the outward is not so material; and I think the scriptures seem to favour my belief, especially the declaration of the Apostle St. Paul to the Corinthians, where he says "ye may all prophecy one by one, that all may learn and be comforted."

What the gentlemen contend for, does seem to be true; still we must not my brethren, establish any system which shall limit the spirit of God. The plan which the gentlemen are advocating,

seems to depend too much on dry scripture reasoning. It seems to limit the holy fervor, which is often stirred up by the Spirit of God in laymen. Besides, it would unchurch much of the christian world. I hope therefore this question may be well considered before a decision is had.

Presbyter Primus. Sir, until I heard this gentleman's observations, it was not my intention to have again spoken on this subject. The authorities are so full and so plain that I was in hopes, the bewitching love of mystery, and blind veneration for supposed inspiration, would give way to sound and sober conviction. I would ask the gentleman who last spoke, what evidence he has, that those persons have a spiritual commission, -who profess to be appointed by God to preach and to dispense the visible authority which Christ established? Do they evidence it as did the Apostles, by miraculous works, the only evidence which can in the nature of the case, be admitted? None pretend to this. It is only because they are good and zealous men. But is goodness and zeal a proper criterion in this case? It is always right to venerate zeal and piety; but we must not let. that veneration overthrow the express institutions of God, and controvert fact and scripture. I think

I see this veneration working on the mind of the gentleman who has just spoken; and it does not lessen my love and esteem for him. I know him to be an honest and good man-and I know it is the unaffected simplicity of his heart, which makes him lean towards what is, in his sober conviction, an error. In the sincerity of friendship, I would ask him, if he could be influenced by similar considerations in reference to temporal things? Suppose an eminently pious man should come to him, saying that God had revealed to him, that he must give one fourth of his estate to the Churchsuppose he should in the language of pious fervor, exhort him to go and deposit his money in the fund -would he not be apt to think, that this good man had got some whim in his head-that he was mistaken-that he had taken some delusive dream for a revelation from God? I really believe he would. His veneration for his piety, his admiration of his devotedness to the cause of Christ, would never convince him that that man had a divine commission which would authorise him to require the surrender of a fourth of his property.

Will he then let his veneration of the same man's piety subvert the laws of a positive institution of Christ-subvert the testimony of facts