culty. It will require to be considered | to have the means of rapid transit to proper markets. I can corroborate what THE IRISH NATIONAL FORESTERS AT OBSERVATIONS. with the greatest possible care; because it would be the most disastrous thing possible to make any change at all, if it were not effectual in increasing the store of mussels, and preventing them being frittered away, as too often, I am afraid, from the improvident habits of the fishermen, they have been frittered away in the past. With regard to beamtrawling, it must not be forgotten that this question is at present in an experimental stage. It is not allowable for the Scotch Fishery Board to take steps permanently shutting up any fishing ground until they have thoroughly satisfied themselves that fishing by any particular mode would be injurious to that fishery. They are at present engaged in experimental efforts with a SIR CHARLES LEWIS (Antrim, N.) view to determining this point, and it is said, he wished to draw the attention of quite evident that one of the most prac- the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Setical modes of arriving at a judgment cretary for Ireland (Mr. A. J. Balfour) upon beam-trawling is to allow beam- to the administration of the Crimes Act trawling in a particular district at one in the North of Ireland. On Sunday, time, and to prohibit it at another time the 7th August, on the occasion of an in the same district. This is exactly excursion of Foresters from Belfast to what has been done in the case of Aber- Portrush, a disturbance occurred in the deen Bay. It has been prohibited for a latter place. On that occasion two percertain time. It is now again open, and sons belonging to the Foresters' excurthe result of this double experiment sion party were arrested for firing off must be valuable in guiding us as to pistole in the streets; and about 15 or 16 what is to be done round the whole persons of the other party, who belonged country. My hon. and learned Friend has to Coleraine, were also arrested for referred to the depreciation in the value taking part in what was alleged to be a of Scotch herrings during the last few public riot. It was a rather remarkable years. That is a matter which also circumstance that the two persons who requires very careful consideration. I were charged with firing off loaded reremember very well myself when the volvers on this occasion were summoned attempt to have a close time for small under the ordinary jurisdiction before herrings in Scotland led to many dis- the local magistrates, while the 15 other astrous scenes, and sometimes loss of persons, who were charged with no act life, on the West Coast in former days. of misconduct, but merely taking part It is a matter which requires grave con- in a riot, were summoned under the sideration, and I shall take care that it Crimes Act before a Crimes Court of two is considered during the Recess. The Resident Magistrates. That Court, it last question which my hon. and learned was known, was intended to have a Friend raised was in regard to railway specially severe jurisdiction. The two rates. I am afraid that we in Scotland are cases were heard on the same day. The too weak to effect anything in the matter, two Resident Magistrates sat first, and unless we are backed up by the more they exercised their jurisdiction on one powerful interests in England, which are party. The 15 persons from Coleraine also deeply interested in the question. who were charged with taking part in Trading people of all classes suffer most the riot came before the Court, and, dreadfully in consequence of the extra- whilst one was sentenced to six months' ordinary present arrangements of rail-imprisonment, the others were sent to way rates. But it certainly presses espe- gaol for three months with hard labour. ally hardly upon those who follow the The Resident Magistrates then retired fishing industry, which is an industry from the Bench, and the Local Magisfor which it is imperatively necessary trates took their places, and exercised their jurisdiction over the two persons say whether the prisoners were punished charged with firing loaded revolvers. One of the men was let off on his own recognizances to be of good behaviour, and the other was committed to the Ses sions. These two prosecutions arose out of exactly the same set of circumstances, and should have been operated on impartially, and dealt with impartially before the same tribunal, instead of which one set of persons was brought up before the Crimes Act jurisdiction and considerable punishment inflicted, and the other set before the ordinary Petty Sessional jurisdiction, with the result he had stated. If that was the way the Crimes Act was to be administered in the North of Ireland, he was afraid it would cause considerable heartburnings about the matter. He had to ask that the scales of justice should be held equally between the two parties. He was sorry to have to take up the time of the House even for five minutes on that subject; but he felt it to be his duty to draw attention to the singular difference in the treatment of the two cases. It might be said that the persons firing the revolvers did not come under the Crimes Act. He should have thought that under Section 4 any person acting in the riot would have come under the Act; that any person firing off a revolver in the riot would have taken more part in it than a person who was merely guilty of disorder. Whatever might be the result, he had every confidence that the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary would look into the matter, if he had not done so, and see that fair play was done; and when he read the evidence he would say that there was no justification whatever for inflicting such severe sentences in the case of one party, while the others were dealt with so lightly. COLONEL NOLAN (Galway, N.) said, he was not sorry to see that the hon. Baronet the Member for North Antrim (Sir Charles Lewis) was beginning to cry out on behalf of his constituents. When the hon. Baronet's friends came under the operation of the Crimes Act, when his constituents felt the severity of the Act, it might open the eyes of the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland. He did not blame the hon. Baronet, but thought he was quite right in bringing forward the case of his constituents. He was not sufficiently acquainted with the case to too severely; but he knew that the MR. DILLON (Mayo, E.) said, it had become perfectly manifest that the Irish Executive could inflict personal ven geance on their political opponents. It swells in England-he said it was cruel was probable, in view of the speech of and shameful to take that man and the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Se- starve him, so that when he came out cretary for Ireland (Mr. A. J. Balfour) he was unable to work for his bread. If the previous night, that a large number the Members of the House were to be of the Irish Members would be in gaol bo- subjected to treatment of that characfore Christmas, and they demanded that ter, simply and solely for speeches desecurity should be given that the Mem-livered in Ireland, the people of Engbers of the Irish Party should not be land would ask themselves this questreated as pickpockets. They knew per- tion-"Who are the men who have fectly well that there were many Mem- sentenced these public politicians, and bers on the other side of the House who how are they to judge whether the were of opinion that the Irish Members speeches were punishable or not?" ought to be treated as pickpockets; but They would also ask what was the he did not believe the majority of the nature of the evidence on which these people of this country shared that view. men were sentenced. Before he left He had had personal opportunities of this question of prison treatment, he noticing what the character of the treat-wished to say a word or two regarding ment of prisoners in Irish gaols was. He had made it his business to inquire what the treatment of prisoners for ordinary offences was. He tested the treatment with the most disastrous result; and the conclusion he came to deliberately was that the treatment and food were such as no ordinary offender, no matter how disgraceful he was, ought to receive-it was simply slow starvation. He was able to try and experiment on some prisoners in this way. He and some of his friends were placed in the infirmary of the prison at Kilmainham, under Mr. Forster's Act, by which the treatment of prisoners was humane compared with what it was under the present Act. They had a prisoner assigned to them as servant at 1d. a-day. This man was a strong man; but when he was assigned to do their work, they were struck with the extraordinary pallor of his countenance. All appearance of blood had left him, and they discovered that he was in a state of desperate starvation. He was a stout man, and the food with which he was supplied was inadequate to supply the cravings of hunger. There was a certain coal-hole to which this man was sent to get coal, and they arranged to conceal in this coal-hole a certain amount of food from their dinners each day. The result of this was remarkable. Within one week the man's cheeks got red, his colour returned, and his whole appearance was clearly altered. It was as clear a case of starvation as ever he saw in his life. He claimed it was a cruel and savage treatment to take a man-say, a labourer-who got drunk -some of the Members of the House of Commons got drunk, and also some great the treatment of his hon. Friend the Member for North-East Cork (Mr. W. O'Brien). All who were acquainted with the hon. Member for North-East Cork knew perfectly well he was a man of delicate constitution. The Government might claim it was necessary to arrest him because he did not obey the Court. He (Mr. Dillon) thought that the Court was an infamous Court. The Government might contend they were justified in arresting the hon. Gentleman; but why had they postponed the trial for nine days, and why did they keep him in prison during that time? Why, if they were gentlemen, had they stooped to so mean and contemptible an action in order to revenge themselves on a man whose pen and tongue had made them smart more than once? Why had they not put him into a decent room, as any ordinary manly person would have done, in order to lighten as much as possible the deprivation of liberty which must be such a great punishment to any man? He said that if any man of the Irish Executive had gentlemanly and honourable feelings in his heart, the very reason that the hon. Member for North-East Cork had spoken and written of him would have made him scrupulously avoid anything which could. be interpreted as mean and petty personal revenge against the hon. Member. He said to thrust the hon. Member into an ordinary prison cell, and to treat him as a common convict and a disgraceful offender, and to keep him there for nine days, was a mean, personal vengeance against a man who had certainly used strong language against the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary. The question of prison treatment would un- | place him in an ordinary cell, when the doubtedly occupy the attention of this result of that trial was uncertain, was to country during the autumn; but he do a dastardly and cowardly thing, and would now pass from that subject to say he thought they had a right to demand a word or two on the question of the an explanation from the right hon. Genarrest of the hon. Member for North- tleman the Chief Secretary on that point. East Cork and the way that arrest was He (Mr. Dillon) had read carefully the carried out, and the proceedings of the report of the hon. Member for NorthGovernment in keeping him in gaol and East Cork's speeches, and he was of postponing the trial. When the hon. opinion that the trial would break down. Member was on the boat at Kingstown, Of course, it would not break down be saying farewell to an English friend, fore the magistrates; but it would break the police thought he intended to come down before a County Court Judge. He over and speak in Parliament. The would once again draw attention to this hon. Member was approached by a de- point, which would inevitably dwell in tective, who informed him if he would the minds of the English people during promise not to go to Parliament he the coming autumn. When they saw would not arrest him, but that unless men put in prison like common felons he gave that promise he should be com- they would ask on what evidence had pelled to arrest him. Were they to this been done; and when they saw the understand the arrest was made to only evidence on which the Crown was prevent the hon, Member taking part in acting was the evidence of their paid the debate of last night? Did the Go- spies, who, unless they swore according vernment suppose for one moment that to the instructions given them, would he was going to run away from his lose their places and be dismissed from arrest? Did they suppose it was not the service-when the people of this his intention to return to Ireland quite country recognized that, they would not soon enough to stand his trial; and stand it very long. There were, unon what ground did they justify their doubtedly, good men in the Irish police; action in informing the hon. Member but he did not believe when they saw that if he would not go over to Parlia- the Representatives of Ireland thrown ment he should be left at liberty, but if into gaol on the unsupported testimony not he would be arrested? The inter- of hirelings who were under the thumb pretation they were entitled to put on of the Irish Executive, and who de that was that it was the intention of the pended for their promotion on the zeal Government to shut the hon. Member's with which they swore their stories, and mouth and prevent him speaking in who, as they had proved, were conParliament; and he thought that was a stantly perjuring themselves in the serproceeding which would demand expla- vice of their masters-when the English nation both by Members of the House people saw this he had perfect confidence and also by people outside. The hon. that they would not stand it. He had Gentleman very properly declined to received a telegram from Cork which give any promise of the kind. The next threw a light on these proceedings. question he had to ask the Government This telegram stated that yesterday Mr. was how, when he had been arrested, Eaton and his brother magistrate before they could justify their action in post- whom the hon. Member for North-East poning the trial to Friday week? There Cork was to be tried were in the Court was no reason whatever why he should House at Cork, and along with them not have been brought up any day after was Mr. Carson, the counsel for the the arrest. He could see no reason for Crown. Now, Captain Plunkett, who this course, except the petty and vindic- was the District Magistrate for Cork and tive spite of detaining him in prison. Kerry, invited Mr. Tuohy, a reporter Was it true that the hon. Member was of The Cork Examiner, to remain. After now placed in a cell without a fireplace this one of the magistrates invited Mr. -an ordinary prison cell? If it were Tuohy to withdraw, to enable him and true, it was a murderous and infamous his brother magistrate to consult in priact. Many of the gaols in Ireland-as vate with Mr. Carson, the Crown Prose he had reason to know-were cold and cutor, over the case. This was done damp, and utterly deadly to a man of in spite of the fact that Mr. Tuoby had his hou. Friend's constitution; and to the special permission of Captain Plun kett to remain. Captain Plunkett stood | living who was so endeared to the hearts outside the Court House while this pri- of the Irish people as his hon. Friend the vate consultation was going on between Member for North-East Cork; and unthe two magistrates and the Crown doubtedly, whatever efforts might be Prosecutor, and when he saw Mr. Tuohy made to the contrary, if he suffered he asked him why he was not inside. through his imprisonment vengeance Mr. Tuohy told him that he had been would be taken by people in Ireland put out, and that a private consultation or America. He said, again, that in was going on. Captain Plunkett at this spite of all the influence that men who seemed a good deal disconcerted, and believed in Constitutional means could requested Mr. Tuohy to go back into the bring to bear-and he deplored it more room with him. This was a very instruc- than words could utter-in spite of all tive explanation of how these prosecu- the earnest efforts of Irish Members tions were to be carried out. Evidently and the wonderfully successful efforts of the two magistrates were taking their the right hon. Gentleman the Member instructions from the Crown Prosecutor for Mid Lothian (Mr. W. E. Gladstone) as to what they should do; and that to undo the bad work of the past and was the way all these trials were to be remove those feelings of hatred becarried out. In fact they were not trials, tween the two countries, this miserable and that was the reason the hon. Mem- action of the Government, if persisted ber for North-East Cork refused to ap- in, would undo everything that they had pear before the Court. They were the succeeded in doing, and stir up again acts of the Executive. They were cut feelings of animosity and hatred beand dry condemnation arranged before- tween the English and Irish people. hand at the Castle, and carried on by the most atrocious mockery of justice by those agents who were constantly promoted for what was called good service. That was all he wanted to say about his hon. Friend's trial. It was a matter which would be heard of again and again. He believed and hoped and had the strongest conviction that the Government would be overthrown in this case. It was so trumpery a case that he could hardly conceive any County Court Judge would uphold the decision which he had no doubt the magistrates would give. If their decision should be upheld, and if the hon. Member were condemned to imprisonment, he (Mr. Dillon) deeply regretted the desperate feeling which would be excited amongst the people in Ireland and America by these acts. He had done, and would continue to do, everything in his power to assist the Ministers and the Liberal Party in removing the hatred and illfeeling which had existed in Ireland for a long period towards England; and it was deplorable that at this time of day an act should be done by the Executive Government which would raise a storm of hatred and evil passion amongst the Irish people, the consequence of which it would be impossible for anyone to forecast or control-he did not care who he was, or what his influence might be with the masses of the people in Ireland-because there was no man now THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR) (Manchester, E.) said, the hon. Baronet the Member for North Antrim (Sir Charles Lewis) had raised a question as to the trial that took place in connection with certain riots at Portrush. The hon. Baronet asserted that if the magistrates had done their duty they would have tried all the prisoners at the same time and under the same jurisdiction. He could not help thinking that the hon. Baronet had spoken under a misconception, though it was true that some of the prisoners the rioters were tried under the Crimes Act; but the excur sionists were tried under the ordinary Law. There were two persons tried under the ordinary law for the use of firearms. One man had threatened to fire, and the other had actually fired. The man who had threatened to fire had been bound over to keep the peace for a year. It appeared to him that, so far from the person who had fired the pistol having been treated with exceptional leniency, as he had been committed to the next Assizes, it might turn out that he had been treated with greater severity. His hon. Friend said the rioters were sentenced to penalties far too serious for their offence. He had not seen the evidence, and therefore could not pronounce an opinion, even if it would have been proper for him to do so. He would remind his hon. Friend that several ex |