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describe that this police reporter was Address for a Return showing, for each endeavouring to force his way to the of the years from 1881 to 1886 inclusive platform ? I also wish to know from -(1) Total number of constables prothe Attorney General whether he will moted to the rank of sergeant; (2) numdo his best to get information in the ber of the above who at the time of course of to-day, as I ain anxious about their promotion either were over 35 the matter?-the combatants being my years of age or had served in the force constituents, of whose conduct I am in upwards of ten years. tensely proud to-day.
MR. SPEAKER said, the hon. Mem. MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! ber could not move for the Return, as it MR. SEXTON: I beg to give Notice, was opposed. Sir, that I shall strenuously resist any MR. PICKERSGILL said, that there progress being made with the Appro- was no Notice of opposition on the priation Bill unless a full and official Paper. account is laid before the House to-day. MR. SPEAKER: That is not neces.
DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid): Isary. wish to ask the right hon. and learned MR. PICKERSGILL said, that he Gentleman whether it is a fact, as 'is would move it at the close of the Sitting. shown by to-day's papers, that the commencement of this terrible affair
ORDERS OF TRE DAY. MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! A number of Questions have been asked SUPERANNUATION ACTS AMEND. on this matter, and the Ministers have MENT BILL.-[Bill 354.] replied that they are not in possession (Mr. Jackson, Mr. Chancellor of the Erhequer.) of sufficient information. The matter
CONSIDERATION. cannot be carried further. Dr. TANNER: I bow to your deci.
Bill, as amended, considered. sion; but--
Clause 2 (Power to grant retiring Mr. SPEAKER: Order, order! The allowances to persons removed). Clerk will now proceed to read the THE SECRETARY TO THE TREAOrders of the Day.
SURY (Mr. JACKSON) (Leeds, N.) said, MR. SEXTON: I must remind the he rose to move the omission of words right hon. Gentleman that there are from the clause, which provided that the other Questions on the Paper which particulars of a civil servant's inability have not yet been put.
to discharge efficiently the duties of his DR. TANNER: Hear, hear!
office should be set forth in the Treasury
Minute granting an allowance. IRELAND-BELFAST-GRANT FOR
Amendment proposed, in page 2, line CITY CHARTER. MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.) asked ticulars of his inability to discharge
6, to leave out the words "the parthe First Lord of the Treasury, When inefficiently the duties of his office.”— the Irish Law Officers reported on the Petition for the grant of a City Charter
(Mr. Jackson.) to Belfast; what is the cause of the
Question proposed, “That the words delay in finally dealing with the Peti- proposed to be loft out stand part of the tion; and, when he expects to be Bill." able to announce the granting of the SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL (KirkCharter ?
caldy, &c.) said, he strongly objected to THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W.H. SMITH) | this Amendment. He thought it was (Strand, Westminster): I have had no only reasonable that these particulars time to obtain information on this sub- should be given. This was a Bill to ject, the Question having only appeared give the Treasury a discretion which on the Paper this morning.
hitherto had been exercised in an illegal MR. SEXTON: I will repeat the and irregular manner. If public serQuestion on Monday.
vants made themselves sufficiently dis
agreeable, they were got rid of in the METROPOLITAN POLICE. prime of life with large superannuation MOTION FOR A PAPER.
allowances, the result being that their MR. PICKERSGILL (Bethnal Green, services were lost to the public, while an S.W.) said, he rose to move for an additional burden was imposed upon the VOL. CCCXXI. [THIRD SERIES.]
taxpayer. He had no doubt that both security was taken under the clause as the First Lord of the Treasury and the it stood, because it provided that the Secretary to the Treasury were vigilant Treasury Minute granting the allowguardians of the public purse, but they ance should set forth the amount of the had pressure put upon them, and, as the allowance and the reasons for granting old proverb had it, quis custodist ipsos it and should be laid before Parliacustodes? He had been for some years ment. sitting in the House, but it was only DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid) said, lately he had come to understand that that the Bill, which was of considerable the Auditor General was no real check. importance and very long, had never It was true that the Auditor General been discussed except in the small hours often reported that certain grants of of the morning. There was one particular pensions and other grants were illegal, point connected with the general quesirregular, and unauthcrized, but they tion of superannuation which he thought were got through by the Committee of ought to be considered by the House. Public Accounts. That Committee was MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Gentle. no doubt an excellent body, but it was man must not discues the provisions of composed of Members of that House, the Bill, but must confine himself to the and the Government had great influence Amendment. over them. He did not remember one DR. TANNER: I had not the slightest single case in which the Public Accounts intention of doing so. Committee proposed that these illegal Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Gentle. and irregular payments should be re- man was certainly doing so. fused by the House. The words proposed Dr. TANNER said, his only object to be left out were allowed to remain in was to lead up to the Amendment of the the Bill during its two previous stages, Secretary to the Treasury, which struck and he now made an appeal from Philip out of the clause the words “the par. drunk to Philip sober of the Treasury ticulars of his inability to discharge not to strike them out.
efficiently the duties of his office." His MR. JACKSON said, the matter was own opinion was that whenever a civil really a very trivial one.
servant was superannuated, whether Sir GEORGE CAMPBELL: Not from accident, old age, inefficiency, or at all.
disease, the cause should be clearly MR. JACKSON said, that the hon. stated. He hoped the House would Member appeared to be under the im- diride against the Amendment, as he pression that since the Bill passed the believed it would destroy the whole gist second reading and the Committee stage of the clause. some pressure had been put upon the MR. PICKERSGILL (Bethnal Green, Government strike out these words. S.W.) said, that there was reason to That was not the fact. He was not complain that at the last moment this aware that the words had been left in change, which was a most important the Bill. He admitted that was his own one, should have been sprung upon the fault, because he agreed when the Bill House. He asked for the retention of first came before the House to strike the words in the interests of the civil out the words, as he thought them un- servants. If there was security that necessary and needlessly offensive. the civil servant should know the pre
SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL: With cise grounds upon which he was diswhom was the agreement made? charged his objection would be met. He
MR. JACKSON said, it was made did not understand what security there with those who thought their interests was that the civil servant would be able were affected. The hon. Gentleman to ascertain the precise grounds. complained that in discharging a dis- THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR agreeable duty the Treasury sought to THE COLONIES (Sir HENRY HOLLAND) discharge it in a manner as little dis- (Hampstead) said, that under Section 2 agreeable as possible. If a man was the Secretary to the Treasury was regiven a certificate of inability it was quired to state the amount of the allowentirely unnecessary to give the par- ance granted to a discharged civil serticulars and set them forth to the world. vant, and the reasons for such allowance. So far as knowledge of the circum- The only point was whether it was stances was desirable full and complete necessary to go further and state the par.
ticulars of the officer's inability to dis- Treasury could do it in every case, he
76: Majority 53.-Div. List, No. 471.) MR. PICKERSGILL said, that did not meet his objection; the reasons for
Motion made, and Question proposed,
“That the Bill be now read the third the allowance were perfectly distinct
time." from the reasons for which the officer was discharged.
DR. TANNER: No! GENERAL GOLDSWORTHY (Ham- Mr. SPEAKER: Does the hon. Memmersmith) said, he should support the ber name a Teller? Amendment. He agreed with the Socro- DR. TANNER: I name the hon. tary to the Treasury that the proposed Member for North Kildare (Mr. Carew). alteration in the Bill was a kindly con- MR. SPEAKER: Will the hon. Memcession to the civil servants. He thought ber tell ? all the information that was necessary Mr. CAREW (Kildare, N.): Yes, Sir. would be contained in the certificate. The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES
Question put. (Mr. COURTNEY) (Cornwall, Bodmin)
The House divided :-Ayes 81; Noe said, he regretted that the omission of | 16: Majority 65.—(Div. List, No. 472.) these words had been proposed. They
Bill read the third time, and passed. were a defence and protection to the Treasury. While the House, as a rule, looked to the Treasury to prevent ex.
BANKRUPTCY (DISCHARGE AND CLO. travagance, the Treasury itself was not
SURE) BILL.--[BILL 327.) so strong that it could afford to throw (Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General, away a protection if it could obtain it,
Baron Henry De Worms.) and that protection was being thrown
CONSIDERATION. away out of delicacy to the feelings of the officer himself. He thought they
Bill, as amended, considered. were carrying that delicacy too far in Motion made, and Question proposed. refusing to put in the Minute the reasons • That the Bill be now read the third why the officer was discharged. The time."-(Mr. Attorney General.) Treasury were occasionally pressed to
DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid) said, allow retirements of which they did not approve; and if they were able to put in he had an Amendment to move to the the certificate the reasons for the dis- second clause of the Bill. charge, they would find in that a pro hon. Gentleman cannot move an Amend
MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! The tection which they were now,
for which appeared to him totally inade ment, as the Question is that the Bill be
read third time. quate, going to throw away. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir
Dr. TANNER: “As amended to be RICHARD WEBSTER) (Isle of Wight) said, covsidered” is on the
MR. SPEAKER: The Question beif he thought the hon. Gentleman was right in the view he had taken of the fore the House is that the Bill be read words he would support his conten- a third time. tion. But he ventured to think that, as
DR. TANNER: I challenga a Divi
sion. the words stood, they were sufficient
MR, SPEAKER: Will the hon. Memprotection to the Treasury. There were
ber name a second teller ? cases in which it was very desirable to
DR. TANNER named the hon. Memstate, and the Treasury would state, the reasons for the dismissal if it was neces
ber for North Monaghan (Mr. P. sary to protect themselves; but, on the
O'Brien). other hand, there were cases in which it Question put. would not be necessary to do so in order
The House divided : -Ayes 80 ; Noes to protect the Treasury, and yet if those 14: Majority 66.—(Div. List, No. 173.) pelled to do it, and therefore, as the Bill read the third time, and passed.
MR. CLANCY: I was going to give
MR. SPEAKER; Order, order! I
must warn the hon, Gentleman.
MR. CLANCY said, he was only
stating his reasons against taking the Bill, as amended, considered.
third reading now. He hoped he might Motion made, and Question proposed, be permitted to add that if he had had "That the Bill be now read the third an opportunity he would have moved an time.”—(Afr. Attorney General.)
Amendment to Clause 5, under which
the period for registration was to be
DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid): Yes,
Amendment proposed, to leave out
Question to add the words “ upon this
Question proposed, “That the word had never been present during its dis 'now'stand part of the Question.” cussion, in spite of the fact that the At- MR. COURTNEY said, that perhaps torney General said that he (Mr. Clancy) he might be allowed to clear up a mishad taken part in the discussion. He apprehension which appeared to exist should like to move an Amendment to in the mind of the hon. Member. The the 5th clause, and he had understood hon. Member said that the Bill had only that such opportunity would be offered been brought in at early hours of the on the Report. He should like to know morning, and that it had not been diswhether or not he would be entitled to cussed in that House at all. This Bill movo an Amendment.
was a peculiar one. A Bill precisely the MR. SPEAKER: I distinctly asked same word for word as the present Bill the House whether there were any quitted the House of Commons early Amendments to this Bill, and the hon in the Session. It was discussed at conMember in charge of it said “No." siderable length, and the hon. Member Therefore, the next step was to put to for Kilkenny (Mr. Chance) took great the House the Question that the Bill be interest in it, and co-operated largely read a third time.
with the hon. Member for Hull (Mr. MR. CLANCY: May I move an King) and the Attorney General in Amendment now?
bringing it to a third reading. The MR. SPEAKER : No Amendment Bill went up to the House of Lords, can be moved now.
but its promoters in this House were MR. CLANCY said, in that case he unaware of the necessity of getting must protest, by way of taking a Divi- some Peer to take it up and prosecute sion, against the third reading of the its progress in the other House. Along Bill. The measure had been hurried with one or two other Bills which went through the House in the early hours up to the House of Lords with the full of the morning
concurrence of the House of Commons, MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! The it was delayed until after the time when hon. Member is not entitled to go into it was possible for it to be taken by their that matter now. He is not discussing Lordships. It therefore practically bethe Bill or anything connected with it. came a dropped Bill. In order that the
time and labour of this House might | so he would move that the Speaker not be wasted, their Lordships ap- should leave the Chair that day three parently spontaneously brought in months. This Bill provided for the cona new Bill word for word the same as tinuance of a number of Acts of various the measure which had left the House kinds, and which were continued in a of Commons. That Bill being passed hand-to-mouth fashion from Session to in the House of Lords now came down Session without any opportunity being to this House, and this House was now given for their reconsideration. It conasked to go through what was perhaps tinued, for instance, the Employers' an empty form, that of reasserting and Liability Act. The whole subject matter reaffirming what was done at an early of that Act had been threshed out bepart of the Session. That was the fore a Select Committee of the House. excuse for the Bill being passed without There was no reason whatever why a explanation or consideration in the early new Employers' Liability Bill should not hours of the morning, which the hon. have been passed into law in the present Member complained of. The hon. Mem- Session ; but the Government, instead ber would see that the House had had of taking up useful projects of that full knowledge of the Bill. As a matter kind, had thought fit to fritter away the of fact, the Bill was as much the work time of an unsually prolonged Session of the hon. Member for Kilkenny as in so-called Business which could not of its original promoters. He trusted possibly conduce to the well-being of the that the hon. Member would not persist Empire, or any part of it. The labours in his Motion.
of the strong and industrious Committee MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.) said, he on the Employers' Liability Act had also hoped that after the elaborate and been practically thrown away, at any courteous explanation of the hon. Gen- rate, for a considerable time to come. tleman the Chairman of Committees, The whole question was ripe for legisfor which they were all very thankful, lation. The House and every branch his hon. Friend would withdraw bis of industry were agreed in the proopposition, though that opposition had, visions embodied in the Special Report in the absence of any explanation on of the Committee, and he believed the the part of the Attorney General, been Government had actually a Bill ready quite justified.
for presentation to the House, founded MR. CLANCY said, that this discus- upon that Special Report. What was sion would have been obviated if the the consequence of the conduct of explanation given by the Chairman of Business by the Government ? The Committees had been given at the whole class of seamen was excluded outset by the Attorney General. It was from the provisions of the Employers' part of the policy of Her Majesty's Go- Liability Act, and besides that whole vernment to
classes of men were now compelled by MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! The the terms of their service to contract hon. Gentleman has no right of reply. themselves out of the benefit of the Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Act. Other recommendations of the
Committee which would have found Main Question put, and agreed to. acceptance were, for the time being,
Bill read the third time, and passed, absolutely wasted, and the present imwith Amendments.
perfect law was to be continued by the
hand-to-mouth method of this Bill. He EXPIRING LAWS CONTINUANCE BILL. protested against this miserable way
(Mr. Jackson, Sir Herbert Marwell.) of carrying on the Business of the (BILL 363.]
country. He hoped that the Attorney Order for Committee read.
General would state in the clearest way
what was the intention of the GovernMotion made, and Question proposed, ment with regard to the Bill, and the "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the
recommendations of the Committee, and, Chair."
in the meantime, he moved that the MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR (Donegal House resolve itself into Committee on E.) said, he desired to draw attention the Bill this day three months. to several matters in connection with Amendment proposed, to leave out the Bill, and for the purpose of doing from the word “That"' to the end of