3.46. and from whofe Communion is the Pope of Rome excom. municated? Is a Perfon excommunicated any longer a Mem ber of the Church? And can he then be the Head of it? After which you conclude with a serious Air that these are Matters of no fmall Importance, and demand very gravely, who is the Judge in this Cafe Why, Sr, the Parties on both Sides communicating with each other determine the Queftion; nay every Man in his right Senfes will be furpriz'd at your Ask. ing it.

"G. My Lord, how have we been teaz'd with » that Queftion, who shall be Judge? This answers → all Objections with you. For begin at what Point » of Popery you will, and bring Arguments never fo » convincing, we are always ftopped with this Quef» tion, who shall be Judge? And fo you refer all to the Authority of the Church. But when you anfwer >this as to your own Cafe, you will have anfwer'd it as to us too. pag. 85.

L. Sr, I must beg your Pardon. For I have already answer'd it as to my own Cafe: and you are as far as ever from anfwering it with Relation to any of your pretended Reformers. However I do not re, member I have yet troubled you with the Queftion, who shall be Judge, in Answer to your Objections: But have made a pretty good Shift to stop your Career with other Answers.

But let that be as it will, the true Meaning of the Question you speak of is this; viz. Who has a better Title to be the Judge of Controverfies in Religion? The Church of Chrift, or a private Man appealing from her Authority to his own private Judgment? And let me tell you, Sr, the Queftion thus understood fuffices to confound any pretended Reformer of the Church's Faith. But the Cafe is quite otherwife as to the Queftion in Reference to Excommunications, or Difputes

279 about Privileges; as is obvious to the Reflection of any Man, who can diftinguish between Articles of reveal'd Religion, and Facts, that have no Relation to it.

G. My Lord, if the Pope be fupreme Head of the Universal Church, he must have Power of Ex- « communicating over all in his own Communion. « That is, according to his Scheme over all Chrif- e tians in the World. And to difpute the Validity of his Excommunication is a total Denial of his e Supremacy, and Setting up another Supreme above « him. And who is that? Who is Judge, whether his « Excommunication is valid or not? And by what « Authority do's he Judge? It must be by fome Au- « thority Superiour to that of the Pope, and fo he is « Supreme over the Supreme. pag. 85. «.

L. Sr, that the Pope has the Power of Excommu nicating for a juft Caufe is as certain, as that Kings have Power to punish Rebellious Subjects. But pray, Sr, is it impoffible for me to Judge that my Supe riour is mistaken in the Exercife of his Authority over me without Difowning the Lawful Extent of it? Or do I become Superiour to him by Judging myself wrong'd by him? What wretched Stuff is this! I have heard of Subjects that have gone to Law with their Sovereign, and Sentence has been pronounced in favour of them: Yet I never heard the Sovereign has loft his Prerogative or Superiority by it. But, Sr, in the Question we have before us, viz. whether France be excommunicated by the Bulla Cana, we need no other Judge than the Pope himself who has fufficiently decided the Matter. For he knows the Bull has never been received by, nor has any Force in France: and therefore communicates (as I told you before) with the Gallicane Church, as with other Churches; he has his Nuncio refiding at the French Court,

He acknowledges their King to be the eldeft Son of the Church, and Protector of the holy See. What do you require more? Is not this declaring in Fact, that the Gallicane Church is not under Excommunication? Is it not declaring, that he Judges their Profeffion of Faith relating to the Supremacy to be Orthodox ; without which it is certain he would not communicate with them?

» G. My Lord, if the Pope's Excommunication ftands (without which his Supremacy falls) we may fay, who can be faved: All Chriftian Kings and Princes that are, or ever were in the World, even thofe of his own Communion, particularly in » England as well before the Reformation as fince, are all together curfed and anathematiz'd to the Pit of »Hell by the Bulla Cone. And with them all their Bishops, Divines, Parliaments, Judges, Lawyers, Clerks, Printers, and Publishers, or any others, who » have any Manner of Way been Aiding, Affifting, »or Confenting, tho tacitly to the Contravention of their » Princes to any Part of this Bull: that is, as I faid » before, almost every one above the Condition of a » Plowman, are here all damn'd by all the Authority "the Pope has. Therefore have a Care of giving him » too much. For he will take all any Body will give » him. pag. 85.86.

L. Sr, all this has been answer'd already. I thank you however for the prudent Caution you give me not to be too liberal to the Pope. Tho you have fet me but a very bad Example. For I affure you, Sr, you have given him more than the Roman Catholick Church ever dreamt of.

G..

§. 47.

Bellarmin and Gratian explain'd.

E accepted this from Bellarmin, that if the « Pope should command the Practice of Viceye and forbid Virtue, the Church were obliged to believe xe Vice to be good, and Virtue to be wicked. De Rom. Pont. L. 4. C. sa «sna

L. But pray, Sr, was not Bellarmin put into Bedlam, when he taught this mad Doctrine?

.

G. Not that Lever heard of. #ɔii

L. Then by the Grace of God we may hope he never taught it. So let us hear but the rest of your Story.

G. Nay his own Canon-law fays, that if the Popeke were fo wicked as to carry with him innumerable People, se by Troops as Slaves to Hell to be with him for ever torne mented, yet no mortal Man whatsoever must prefume « here to reprove his Eaults, because he is fudge of all and himself to be Judged by none. Decret. Part.or. Dikt, 40. Can. Si Papa. So then they must keep their w Reproofs, and not endeavour to top the Career « till they are with him, in Hello and then I prefume « his Supremacy ceafes. Behold the Machine of humanve Invention, which God never thought of, nor ever<«< once mention'd of Climbing to Heaven by a Sort of Mechanifm upon a Ladder of Popes, Car\c dinals, Councils, . And tho we feel them leading us by Troops to Hell, we must give no Obftruc-e tion, because it would break their Machine of be. « ing our Infallible Guides to Heaven. pag. 86. 87. «in

L, I must beg Leave to advise you, Sr, that when you intend to be very witty, you forget not to fpeal Senfe, as you have unluckily done this Time. For

Nn

21

defire to know what is Nonsense, if this be not? viz,
that the pretended Machine of Popes being infallible Guides
to Heaven would be broke, if they were not permitted
to carry as many as they pleafe to the Devil without Re-
proof or Moleftation.

"But let us fee, what Juftice you have done either
to Bellarmin, or Gratian's Canon-law, which you mif-
call the Pope's. As to Bellarmin, the plain Meaning
of his Propofition is this. That if an infallible Perfon
(as he maintains the Pope to be) should teach the
moft impious Errors, we should be bound to follow
him: which mad Suppofition together with it's Con-
fequence as ridiculous as itfelf do's no Manner of
Harm, unless you can shew, that Bellarmin was fo
mad as to hold it poffible that an infallible Person can
teach the most grofs and impious Errors. All there-
fore that Bellarmin teaclies is, that an abfurd Con-
fequence would follow from an abfurd Suppofition,
which is certainly true as it is true to fay
fay, that if
a Man were a Horfe, he would not have a rational Soul.
And if I should maintain this conditional Propofi-
tion, would it be fair to charge me with Holding,
that a Man has not a rational Soul?

As to Gratian's Canon-law, befides that he is an Author of little or no Credit amongst us, you have very much misreprefented his Words; if Coining one Part, and Clipping another may properly be call'd Mifreprefenting. For you make it begin thus. If the Pope were fo wicked as to carry with him, &c. Whereas the true Tranflation of it is as follows; If the Pope being neglectful of his own Salvation and that of his Brethren, be found unprofitable, and remiß in his Duty; nay and moreover is filent when he ought to speak; which is a greater Mischief both to himself and his whole Flock: nevertheleß draws with him, &cy milf me

Now, Sr, there is a Difference between this and