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ROCEEDINGS IN PARLIAMENT, 1802.

M. OF COMMONS.

November 23.

The preliminary business having been gone through, and the King's Speech read; Mr. Trench moved an address of thanks to his Majesty; which was an echo of the Speech.

Mr. Curzon feconded the motion. Mr. Cartwright and Sir John Wrottefley concurred, that the best way of rendering the bleffings of peace permanent, was to be prepared for any exigency-The former hon Member animadverted on the cunning and artifices of the Chief Magiftrate of France, and feverely cenfured the Minifty for precipitately difarming at the time when an increased establishment was rather neceffary.-Sir John Wrottefley, after Rating his moft ardent with that in the prefent ftate of affairs thofe abilities could be again called forth which lately directed the adinistration of our government, concluded by opposing the motion of thanks.

Mr. Fox gave his hearty affent to the Addrefs. An hon. gentleman had alluded to the maintenance of expensive military and naval establishments. His Majefty's Speech had not given any authority for such a conelufion; and he (Mr. Fox), for his own part, had no idea that his Majesty's minifters would fupport any establishments but those which were the direct reínk of neceffity. Some gentlemen affert of the King's Speech, that it is too pacific in its nature; and the hon. gentleman tells us, that we ought not to hold pacific language to France, who has irritated this country. ~" I cannot help thinking, faid Mr. Fox, that if on trifling and flight grounds we enter into war, after what we have foffered, we shall fhew ourselves the most abfurd of mankind. I have no connexion whatever with Administration. I am happy they made peace; they had my applaufe; and I fincerely hope the peace they made they All approve. Hear! Hear Hear! exclaimed the Chancellor of the Exchequer. If

it was fupposed to be the policy of England to make peace, nothing has occurred to render that policy less found than it was at the period when peace was made" With regard to interfering in the state of Europe, there never was a period when this country could lofe more, or have lefs chance of gain, by fuch condu&t. If France is to be the rival of England, he would ask whether mis country ever had fuch fair play while making a peace; and yet this day we are told to look with fear to the navy of France. The great object of France is to revive her commerce, and there emulate this country; hat we have fuch a decided start of her that the cannot overtake us; and even were fe before us, we should have no difficulty GENT. MAC. December, 1902.

whatever in fpeedily overtaking her. In this conteft we have the fairest hopes and the best grounds of being victorious."For fear, Sir (continued Mr. Fox), of going into the fubject at too great a length, I will not introduce a variety of other topics that prefent themselves. To' conclude, Sir, I am fure we have nothing to fear from France [Hear! bear! from all parts of the Houfe] in any one point of view, with refpect to which we can obtain any additional fecurity by going to war. The power of France is certainly greater than could with it, or than any Englishman would with it

but is that ground for going to war?” With regard to the wish for war in England, he could fay, that it was created by the newspapers, and was not the fenfe of the people —Mr. Fox concluded a most elegant and forcible speech, strongly recommend ng pacific meafures, by voting for the Addrefs.

Mr. Canning commenced his obfervations by stating, that nothing less than the great fubject of peace or war agitated the public mind. If war was to be the object, then a preparation fhould be accomplished which should prefent to Europe a conviction that we are ready for either alternative. That military preparations would be neceffary, he all along anticipated, from the moment he beheld the conduct of France in her late tranfactions with neighbouring States; and that the bleffings of the peace were also much over-rated.

Lord Hawkesbury then rofe; and, having adverted to fome of the points of Mr. Canning's fperch, faid that the principles which actuate the conduct of Ministers were the fame as those which had regudated them at the Definitive Treaty. That treaty had fecured the integrity of Great Britain, and added to her dominions; but it had left the Continent rather in an unfatisfactory fituation: but to continue a continental war without continental aid was abfurd. It had therefore been deemed better to hub and our means for a greater effort at a future period. There were the principles upon which Ministers had acted, intended to act upon, and thould always juftify. He could not, however, agree with those who wished to withdraw from all continental connexion, He certainly did think, that in a great State like England, a fpirit of benevolence, guided by policy, ought to lead us to affilt the unfortunate. At the fame time, he difapproved of a country affuming the knight-errant, and throwing down the gauntlet upon every occafion.

No feps had been taken by M.nifters to commit the honour of the country. Mr. Windbam expreted his furprize at the courfe which had been taken on this occafion, and the milduels with which the encroach

er."

encroachments of France were difcuffed. Au Hon. Gentleman had faid, that with France we were to have only a'rivalship in Commerce and Manufactures. But what affurance had we of the amity, or of the forbearance, of that country? Every day tells us of fome new ufurpation on her part. Piedmon', Tuscany, and Parma, are Iwallowed up, one after the other; "The news but one day old doth fhame the telWhat was the plain inference from all this, but that our own ruin was approaching, and that we touched upon the moment of our diffolution? Let any man be called from his grave, who died but 14 years fince, and let him enquire as to the powers which then exified.-Where is Holland? Gone. -Spain? Subdued. Portugal? The fame. - Italy? In thraldom.-Germany? Turn to pieces.-Piedmont? Gone. Switzerland? In fetters.

And yet, under all these circumstances, we paufe and heftate respecting our rule of action. We know that the French revolution is a devouring peftilence, which the more it has deftroyed, the more it is capable of destroying. We know in this country the Rule of Three, which fays, that if fo much power will give fo much effect, what will fo much more accomplish? But here we are to obferve, that it operates in a compound ratio, for in the fame proportions as the power is increased, the refiftance is diminished. What had France done in the last fix months?Look at the map-measure her progrefs, not by countries and provinces, but by degrees of longitude and latitude. Look to her fituation and her population; the former was in the centre of Europe; and the latter, counting the power which the could influence, was perbaps between 50 and 60 millions. But it was faid that Fiance was always more populous than this country, and that therefore the darger is not increated. Let it he confidered that there was formerly a counterpoife on the Continent to her numbers; and that at the prefent moment this counterpoife forms, in a great degree, a part of her own number. — The only confoling argument held forth was the reduction of our expences, as if any faving of ours could keep pace in effect with the political influence of France. But for thefe favings, we were still to depend on the mercy of France. If we began to act, we might hope to see the Continental powers arife in our favour. A war was, in fact, the only chance for our falety. If we furrendered the policffions we bad fill in our power, our fafety was gone, and our deftraction mevitable. Mr. W. then emphatically obferved, it was now come to that pafs with us, that it was "aut Cæfar, aut nullus." We were either to be reduced to the abject fituation of Spain, or converted into a province, for the purpofe of growing timber for the navy of

France, and for producing a ha race of men to recruit her armies-Hecluded a very animated (peech with conjuring the Houle to recollect the dying words of that great and illustrious patrior, the late Earl of Chatham, whofe latt political exertions, and whofe last fentiments were uttered with a refolution, that, fooner than fubmit to any thing derogatory to the honour of Great Britain, he would pawn the fhirt off his back.”

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied particularly to what had fallen from the latter gentleman. He could not, he faid, allow opinions to go forth uncontradicted, which, like thote of the Right Hon. Gentlemán, tended to difhearten and difcourage the country, and which were fo ir coo fiftent with the actual comparative flate of thi country and France—It was the policy of Minifters to maintain and pphold, hy every poßible means, the fources of the nz? tional profperity. They were watchful, and prepares to resist every unjust demand. They were determined to preferve peace, whilft it could be done with due refpect to the national dignity.

Mr. T. Grenville, Lord Caftlereagh, Sir H. Mildmay, and Mr. Whitbread, each fpoke upon the question; after which it was carried without a divifion.

November 24.

Mr. Wilberforcs rofe to deliver his fenti ments on the Addrefs. He liked its tenor, though he thought it not right to push matLers to extremities with regard to Continental affairs: the country had been too ready to engage in foreign connexions, and had wafted much blood and treasure to no ads vantage. It was nevertheless defirable to prevent the aggrandizement of France by land; and he therefore hoped we thould merely keep our eyes on the affairs of the Continent. Mr. W. then took a view of the gigantic ftrides of the French fince the figning of the treaty, as well as of the principal fpeeches which had been made on the preceding evening. After going over nearly the fame grounds as had been purfued with respect to the injustice with which the claims of inferior powers had been treated by France, and the little dependence we could have on the faith of that government, as far as it related to the guarantee of different places fiipulated in the treaty, he fak1, he thought that the difposition of the people ought to be confidered in preference to any other point whatever; and, as their general difpofition was for peace, he thought it paght to be cautiously preferved.

General Gascoigne hoped, that the fpirit fhewn in the debate on this fubject would deter the First Conful from prolecuting his defigns.

Mr. Elliot adverted, like his predeceffors in the debates, to the deftruction of king

doms

1802.] Proceedings in the prefent Seffion of Parliament. 1147

doms and empires by the arms of the French; and, with refpect to the late remonftrance faid to have been made, he was convinced that it could not have produced any effect, unless we had been ready to renew the conteft. Alluding to the confpiracies, he was certain that any traitors here must have communications with Paris; but he thought mercy ought to be fhewn to ignorant men who knew not what they did.

He believed no man had voted for the peace, who did not confider it merely as an experiment; and he concluded by faying, that, if the fpirit of the nation was roused, he fhould be fearless of the fuccefs of any war into which we might be driven.

Sir Francis Burdett felt himself in the trange predicament of approving fonte arguments on bth fides of the question; and took a fatorical view of fome principal · points urged by different members.

Eari Temple confidered the Addrefs to be of the fame milk-and-water nature as the reft of minifterial compofitions; it pledged the Houfe to nothing, and therefore he fhould agree to it.

Genetal Maitland faid, our fleets and armies were not fo far difbnded as was fuppofed: we had now 48,000 feamen in employ; and he faw no reafon that the continuance of peace thould render us lefs able to renew the war.

Mr. Fox animadverted on the fpeech of Eail Temple, and went over nearly the fame arguments as on the preceeding evening.

Mr. Windbam replied to Mr. Fox at conderable length.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer condemned Mr. W.'s defpondency; and, in the courfe of his fpeech, in reply to a financial question by Mr. Elliot, as to what would be the of œconomy peace, he faid, that the faving might be 25 millions per annum, being nearly the diffrence between the expences of the last year of the war and a Several Members peace enablithnient. give their opinions on the Addrefs; which was agreed to.

November 30.

Several petitions from different par's of the United Kingdom, were prefented on this and the preceding and five following days, complaining of undue elections.

Leave was given for a bill, to enable the
Directors of the Grand Junction Canal
Company to raise a farther fum of money.

In a Committee of Supply, the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that a fum not exceeding 2,781,532 be granted for paying off Exchequer bills out-ftanding and unprovided for. Agreed to.

On the motion of Sir Philip Stephens, the following refolutions were agreed to: that 50,000 men be employed for the fea fervice for 1803, including 12,000 Marines; wages for ditto, 1,202,500l.; victuals for ditto, 1,235,000!; wear and tear of thips, 1,950,000; and ordnance for fea fervice, 162,500.

Mr. Corry, after fhewing the neceffity of enabling the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to give orders for the enrolment of the Militia, moved for 40,000l. to defray the expence of filling up vacancies in the Militia of Ireland. Agreed to.

December 2.

In

On the vote for 50,000 feamen being brought up, Mr. T. Grenville condemned the novel and unprecedented mode now adopted, of calling for fuch a number of men in time of peace, without any expla nation why they were voted. This was the more fingular, because the late Speech from the Throne was of a warlike nature. June, when 70,000 men were voted, the M nifter expreffed his belief that the next vote would only be for 30,000; the House ought, therefore, to know the grounds of the vote they were about to give. Mr. G. then took a view of the relative fituation of Europe, and the ftate of the Navy of the different Powers, and expreffed fome alarm for the fafety of our West India poffeffions. In short, from the preponderating power of France, he could not confider ur fituations in the Eaft as perfectly fecure; but, as it had been faid that this country could have no apprehenfion from the Navy of France, he concluded with wishing to know what was the object of the prefent

vote.

were

The Chancellor of the Exchequer defended the conduct of Minifters, and entered into a juftification of the meature in question. He obferved, that 45,000 men voted as the Peace Eft shment in 1793; the object of the prelent vote was to con tinue the number for the enfuing year; and the Military Eftabluhment was untended to be much larger than at auy former period, because it was thought, that, in order to preferve tranquillity, a defenfive system The Minifter then adfhould be adopted. verted to the naval fituation of France and Holland, and drew a favourable picture of He pofitively contraour force at fea. dicted the rumour of 27 fail of the line having left Toulon, a 1mour which, he fau, mult have originated in the worft of motives. He then took a comparative view of the Navies of the Continental The Secretary at War prefented the Army Powers, and that of Great Britain. From Eftimatos.

The binsellar of the Exhiquer Atmed, that the number of Seamen at prefent employed amounted to 50,000. He added, that the Seamen would be taken for the whole year, inftead of for three months, leaving a power with Government of reducing them whenever they thought proper.

December 1,

this

5,0co,oool. to be raised by Exchequer Bil s preceding it by moving the ufual duties for the year on Malt, Mum, Cyder, and Perry; on Penfions and Perfonal Eftates in Great Britain; and on Rum, Sugar, Tobacco, Starch, &c. These being agreed top the fubfequent motions on the Exchequer Bills, after fome preface, were agreed to,

FOREIGN