MR. P. J. O'BRIEN: I shall be compelled to raise a debate on this Question.

Irish National Library.

* MR. HUGH LAW (Donegal, W.): I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether his attention has been drawn to the complaint of the trustees of the National Library of Ireland as to the unsatisfactory lighting of the reading room; and whether, in view of the fact that this room is largely resorted to in the evening, as shown by the figures given in the same and previous Reports, steps will be taken during the current year to substitute for the old arc lights now in use some newer form of artificial lighting.

MR. MACVEAGH: Will it apply to Ireland as a separate fiscal entity?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I can only say it includes all parts of the United Kingdom.

Licensing Legislation.

SIR CARNE RASCH (Essex, Chelmsford): I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he can now inform the House as to the intentions of the Government with reference to the question of brewers' licences.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON: Perhaps at the same time the First Lord of the Treasury will answer my Question on the same subject.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Yes; the two The Questions are almost identical. events which gave rise to a widespread feeling of insecurity on the part of English licence-holders, and which have caused many of them to be deprived of their property through no fault of their own, took place subsequently to the meeting of Parliament and the settlement of the legislative programme for the year. It was therefore impossible to deal with the subject in the course of the present session; but the Government propose to take it up at earliest possible moment after the re-assembling of Parliament.

THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. ELLIOT, Durham): I have seen the Reports referred to. I am informed that the lighting of the reading room of the National Library is no doubt capable of improvement either by the substitution for the old arc lights now in use of newer arc lights or of incandescent lights, but the question is complicated by the limits of power of the boilers and engines from which the present light is obtained. The question will be looked into before. the Estimates for next year are sub-ford): May I ask whether the proposed

mitted to Parliament.

The Fiscal Inquiry. MR. MACVEAGH: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can state if the Cabinet inquiry into the fiscal system will include inquiry into the effects of the present fiscal system upon Ireland, considered as a separate entity; and whether he can state if any, and, if so, what steps will be taken to ascertain the exports and imports between Ireland and Great Britain.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Of course the inquiry means an inquiry into the fiscal system of the United Kingdom, including Ireland.

the

SIR W. HART DYKE (Kent, Dart

Bill will provide a safeguard against or remedy for any confiscation of licensed property consequential to proceedings taken at the annual brewster sessions in February next

MR. CROOKS (Woolwich): May I ask whether any proposal that may be brought forward would exclude the claims of brewers for any imaginary loan that may be on a house?

SIR WILFRID LAWSON: May I ask whether the Bill which the right hon. Gentleman has foreshadowed is to be confined entirely to the matter he has mentioned, or is it to be a general licensing Bill?

MR. BRYCE: Will anything be published during the recess or shall we have to wait till the House re-assembles ?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I think it | anything would be gained, even from would be inexpedient, and the House the point of view of the right hon. will probably take the same view, to Gentleman, by attempting to hurry attempt to foreshadow the details of some of them on so as to have them the Bill, whose general object I think ready before the House rises. I have very explicitly stated to the House. Perhaps the hon. Member for Woolwich will accept that as an answer to his Question. With regard to the Question of my right hon. friend, he will bear in mind that no licences can be withheld by the brewster sessions without an appeal to quarter sessions; and I should hope that in the interval that must elapse between those two events the House will be able to express its views on the subject.

MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON (Dundee): May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will consider the propriety of raising the price of licences to a level corresponding to the monopoly value?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I do not think it would be very wise for me to say what I shall, or shall not consider in dealing with this difficult problem; but no doubt any suggestion the hon. Member may make will receive due consideration.

list a

of

The Fiscal Inquiry. MR. MANSFIELD: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury has the Government prepared manufactured articles imported to this country under conditions that enable them to be sold under cost price; and, if so, will the list be published.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR:I hope the Board of Trade will be in a position at no distant date to publish a good many Returns and tables which they are preparing. I do not think much would be gained by attempting to anticipate the contents of these tables.

MR. BRYCE (Aberdeen, S.): Do the Government propose to present to the House before it rises any of the results of their inquiry which have already been arrived at ?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: There will be publications long before the House meets again-indeed, I hope at no distant date after the House rises.

Sale of Butter Bill.

MR. LONSDALE (Armagh, Mid): I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is aware that the Sale of Butter Bill was demanded by agriculturists and the provision trade of the United Kingdom as being in the interests of the public and also of commercial morality; and whether he is prepared to give an assurance that the Government intend early next session to introduce and pass through Parliament a Bill on similar lines to that which has been withdrawn.

MR. BRYCE: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury what Bills he proposes to take this evening after Supply is concluded. Would it not be convenient and more in accord with the spirit of our rules to take Reports of Supply instead of other business if Supply itself is concluded before twelve o'clock? I assume the right hon. Gentleman will not take the MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I should | Sugar Convention Bill. I would also like doubt whether any of these tables will to know whether there is any question of be ready. A block of them will be going on with the Port of London Bill, published together, and I do not think and what Bills would be taken to-morrow

course it is proposed to take with regard CIVIL SERVICES AND REVENUE DE

and MSS. What had been done as well as a number of attendants. Then by the Irish Government and the Trea- as to the lighting of the Library, he sury to meet the growing demands of found, when he read there a great deal this institution? It was perfectly true some years ago, that the lighting was that from year to year a little had been extremely bad, and he hoped it would done. For instance, the Treasury had be improved. The new wing was very given a Vote of £200-in answer to the badly wanted; at present there was repeated requests of the Trustees-for the no place in which books could be unpurpose of cataloguing. That amount had picked. He had noticed great piles of now been paid for four years, and he wooden boxes blocking up one side of hoped it would continue as long as it was the entrance hall, and he had only required, as the work of cataloguing was recently discovered that they contained by no means completed. The work fell volumes sent by an American scientific into arrear because of the permanent society, which could not even be unpacked under-staffing of the Library. The grati- simply because there was no room. tude which the trustees showed for Further, the .Library required a newssmall favours was almost pathetic. They paper department, a map department, a referred in their last Report to twenty patents-consultation department, a manuadditional electric lamps, and similar small improvements such as no member of the Committee would hesitate for a moment in ordering any day for his private library, should they chance to be required.

not on a

script room, and a cataloguing room. The trustees had over and over again urged the necessity of completing the building, and he earnestly hoped it might be possible to make the necessary provision in the Estimates for that purThe grievances complained of fell pose next year. He also hoped that under three heads. Firstly, the salaries there would be a real change of spirit on of the officers of the Library were the part of the Irish Government and proper footing; secondly, the Treasury in dealing with the Library. the staff was entirely insufficient; and He thought they ought to meet the dethirdly, the new wing, which was so long mands of the Trustees in a very different projected, had never been built. As spirit to that which they had shown in regarded the staff, he might mention the past; and he would suggest to the that two very valuable pamphlets-one right hon. Gentleman that it might be a first edition of Fitzgerald's Rubáiyát well to consider whether the Estimate of Omar Khayyám, and the other Shelley's for the Library should be taken from Address to the Irish People "-were its present position as a sub-head discovered and brought to the librarian of the Department of Agriculture and by an attendant who was in receipt put in an independent position of its own of only fifteen shillings per week However that might be, he would urge or thereabouts. That showed that the upon the Treasury the necessity of duties of the attendants were dealing in a very different spirit with the growing demands of the Library, even when all the specific departments referred to had been remedied. It ought to be recognised that the Library had done extraordinary good work in Dublin. It was one of the few institutions which were thoroughly popular, and many people who were debarred from the benefits of University education found their best chance in the reading-rooms of obtaining some of that culture which Cardinal Newman had declared to be

66

very

responsible indeed, and that they ought to be remunerated accordingly. Then, as to under-staffing, he would compare the staffs of the British Museum and the South Kensington Art Library with the staff at the National Library. In 1900 the attendances at the National Library were 148,000. The staff consisted of one librarian, two assistants, and twelve library attendants. The attendances at the British Museum were 188,000, or only 40,000 more; but the staff consisted of twenty-eight officers and fifty library attendants. The attendances at the South Kensington Art Library were only 23,000; and there the staff consisted of one keeper and five assistants, Mr. Hugh Law.

the aim and purpose of University

education.

*MR. BOLAND (Kerry, S.) said he had great pleasure in seconding the appeal

made by the hon. Member for West | officials he knew in Ireland, and was Donegal. The right hon. Gentleman desirous, he was quite certain, of having a complete collection of the works of Irish philologists, such as Zimmer. Pedersen and other Continental scholars, but he had neither the means nor the room at his disposal. If Irish scholarship was to keep ahead in this ntellectual movement into which so many of the young men and women of Ireland were throwing themselves with so much energy, it was necessary that the National Library, if it was to continue its great work, should be complete in this matter. He hoped the Committee would receive a specific assurance that there would be a fair and full settlement with regard to the points put by his hon. friend the Member for West Donegal.

the Chief Secretary, as far back as 6th April, had promised that the whole matter would be considered on the next year's Estimates but the hon. Member for West Donegal had, nevertheless, done a great public service by advertising what had been done by this institution. In Dublin te National Library filled the same position as the British Museum in this country, but it had not a right to a copy of all the books published, and consequently it was only enabled to go on with the assistance of the Treasury. There was no reason now why the Treasury should not build the east wing of the Library. It appeared in the original plans, and was only dropped in 1884 on the ground of economy. The staff, though inadequate, had done its work extremely well, and had always worked to the utmost in its power, but it was ridiculous that a national instituiton of this kind should be crippled for want of a few additional attendants. The inadequacy of the accommodation was shown by the fact that when some years ago an offer was made by the American Patent Office to supply copies of all specifications for patents, that offer had to be declined. The east wing was absolutely necessary for the storage of newspapers, Ordnance Survey maps and patent specifications. In Ireland there was no Patent Office, and the only place in which to follow up patents was the National Library, and there was now absolutely no room to store the specifications of new patents, American as well as English. If Irish inventors were to be given a chance, some extension must be made in order to store all those new patent specifications. It had been pointed out that the National Library was almost a University institution. One of the great movements in Ireland at the present time was the culture of the Irish language, and he might mention, as an example of what was being done by voluntary effort, that classes in Irish philology were conducted by Professor Strachan of Manchester during the past month in Dublin. He was glad to bear tribute to the excellence of Mr. Lyster, the librarian. He was one of the best

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. WYNDHAM, Dover) said it was perfectly true that the Library was annually visited by a larger number of students, and was becoming the centre of intellectual life of the whole of Ireland. Such an institution, embracing so large a circle of intellectual life, would, he was sure, be regarded by his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a friendly eye. Something had been done, as the hon. Member had admitted. The Member for West Donegal raised, in the first place, the specific question of salaries of keepers, servants, and staff generally. With regard to that a departmental inquiry had been appointed with the consent of the Treasury, and the Committee had now finished its inquiries. When their report was received, it would be carefully considered by the Treasury with a view to whatever was possible being done. More than that he could not at present say. The question of the salaries of the staff would be considered in the light of that report. There was undoubtedly a lack of space and overcrowding, but he hopedit would be partly relieved by the new buildings which would, he trusted, be erected this year. Attention had been directed to the dangerous proximity to the museum of workshops in which a considerable quantity of timber was stored, and steps, with a view to the removal of those workshops, would be taken in connection with the scheme